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Tau Vior'la v2.0

 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:33 am 
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@Carlix

Glad you're trying out the Y'vahra! I've found them to be the most situational of the heavy suits, but they definitely deliver when given the chance. I had a lot of success with them serving as a blitz/supremacy suit guard duty and chasing off terminators and air assault marines before making turn 3 defend the flag obj grabs.

I LOVE ghostkeels. They make the stealth formation more pricey (obviously) but the attacks they provide and being able to offer mobile cover to the stealth suits is a great addition. They can get in trouble with all the usual concerns of teleporting, BMs, losing intiative etc, but bringing marker lights and setting up cross fires makes them really tempting to include.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:43 am 
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Alright, we've got a 2.2 version of the list live. A few tweaks to go over:

Riptides: secondary shots upgraded to 45cm missiles. Hoping that this will allow better synergy with the Ion accelerator.
R'varna: saves reduced from Tau shields 5+ to a regular inv 6+. Multiple groups reported the 4/4/5 saves to be excessive.
Ghostkeels: losing Inv saves. They bring a lot to the table already. I think this helps make them more accurate for their points and keeps them from having the same save as the extra armored Rvarna.
Supremacy Suit: losing barrage for 50 pts in exchange for 4x4+/5+ disrupt 45cm ind shots, flat cost. This is probably the biggest change. We did a forum vote, and most people were looking for the change. I'm not 100% sold we won't go back to the barrage though. A big component of the list building is trying to keep Tau synced with EpicUK. They haven't had and issues with the barrage. But I'd like to put this out there for play testing given the result of the vote.

Have at it and good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:53 am 
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Awesome stuff. Would it be possible to update the Armyforge builder to match the current list? Or do you usually wait with that until the list starts to settle down a bit?

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:19 am 
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I'll get the armyforge updated this week

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:55 pm 
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gunslinger007 wrote:
Alright, we've got a 2.2 version of the list live. A few tweaks to go over:

Riptides: secondary shots upgraded to 45cm missiles. Hoping that this will allow better synergy with the Ion accelerator.
R'varna: saves reduced from Tau shields 5+ to a regular inv 6+. Multiple groups reported the 4/4/5 saves to be excessive.
Ghostkeels: losing Inv saves. They bring a lot to the table already. I think this helps make them more accurate for their points and keeps them from having the same save as the extra armored Rvarna.
Supremacy Suit: losing barrage for 50 pts in exchange for 4x4+/5+ disrupt 45cm ind shots, flat cost. This is probably the biggest change. We did a forum vote, and most people were looking for the change. I'm not 100% sold we won't go back to the barrage though. A big component of the list building is trying to keep Tau synced with EpicUK. They haven't had and issues with the barrage. But I'd like to put this out there for play testing given the result of the vote.

Have at it and good luck!


Great changes!
I'm looking forwards trying those disrupt Supremacy weapon as I LOVE disrupt. Also this new non-barrage weapon synergizes with markerlights, which is a great thing.

Thanks for investing your time in keeping the list alive and updated.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:31 am 
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A noobish question perhaps, but when picking a Heavy Battlesuit formation, are you required to pick 3 suits of the same type? or can you pick one of each for example?

This is something I've wondered about the Hammerheads on the Third Sphere list too, the "or" is underlined when it comes to the RailGuns, so I've interpreted that as , if you want RailGuns they must all be RailGuns, but the "or" between Ion and fusionheads isn't underlined, does that mean you can mix em up? 2 Ions and 2 fusions?


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:57 am 
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Cyguns wrote:
A noobish question perhaps, but when picking a Heavy Battlesuit formation, are you required to pick 3 suits of the same type? or can you pick one of each for example?

This is something I've wondered about the Hammerheads on the Third Sphere list too, the "or" is underlined when it comes to the RailGuns, so I've interpreted that as , if you want RailGuns they must all be RailGuns, but the "or" between Ion and fusionheads isn't underlined, does that mean you can mix em up? 2 Ions and 2 fusions?
No worries! As you can see from a hot second of looking around the boards, even the vets have different questions and ways to approach the rules.

For heavy suits, mix and match at will. I particularly like to stick a riptide in with other suits so that any bold air assaults are almost guaranteed to come in with a blast marker from the AS shot.

For hammerheads, you can swap ion and fusionheads, but it's all in if you upgrade to railheads.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:58 am 
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CarlixTomix wrote:
gunslinger007 wrote:
Alright, we've got a 2.2 version of the list live. A few tweaks to go over:

Riptides: secondary shots upgraded to 45cm missiles. Hoping that this will allow better synergy with the Ion accelerator.
R'varna: saves reduced from Tau shields 5+ to a regular inv 6+. Multiple groups reported the 4/4/5 saves to be excessive.
Ghostkeels: losing Inv saves. They bring a lot to the table already. I think this helps make them more accurate for their points and keeps them from having the same save as the extra armored Rvarna.
Supremacy Suit: losing barrage for 50 pts in exchange for 4x4+/5+ disrupt 45cm ind shots, flat cost. This is probably the biggest change. We did a forum vote, and most people were looking for the change. I'm not 100% sold we won't go back to the barrage though. A big component of the list building is trying to keep Tau synced with EpicUK. They haven't had and issues with the barrage. But I'd like to put this out there for play testing given the result of the vote.

Have at it and good luck!


Great changes!
I'm looking forwards trying those disrupt Supremacy weapon as I LOVE disrupt. Also this new non-barrage weapon synergizes with markerlights, which is a great thing.

Thanks for investing your time in keeping the list alive and updated.
Thanks for the support Carlix! Glad you're excited about the list and find it fun to play with.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:30 pm 
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I was making a list for my next game and I realized the pulse driver stats on Supremacy states IC (ignore cover) instead of IF (indirect fire), and I assume it's a typo, but I wanted to check just in case.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:10 pm 
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CarlixTomix wrote:
I was making a list for my next game and I realized the pulse driver stats on Supremacy states IC (ignore cover) instead of IF (indirect fire), and I assume it's a typo, but I wanted to check just in case.
Good catch. Should be Ind. I'll fix and update.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Hi, one thing to say about this list.

I've played many times against and i think that WE battlesuits (riptide, rvarna, stormsurge, etc.) should be in an specific support formation options with 1/1 relation with core (1 core formation, 1 WE battlesuit formation) to avoid WE spam that makes this list so boring to play against.

This list has all the advantages of the NetEA Tau list without any handicap, plus long range fire and increased durability.

Sincerely, this list seems OP to me. In fact, at this time this list is banned from competitive games in our local player cluster.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 9:15 pm 
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I struggle to win many games with Vior'la in my local meta, what kind of lists are you facing and using against it? I'd be keen to see a take on a suit-heavy OP list as I find myself wishing for that 3rd skyray most of the time

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:30 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I struggle to win many games with Vior'la in my local meta, what kind of lists are you facing and using against it? I'd be keen to see a take on a suit-heavy OP list as I find myself wishing for that 3rd skyray most of the time

Do you play with 3rd phase also?

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Cachivache wrote:
I've played many times against and i think that WE battlesuits (riptide, rvarna, stormsurge, etc.) should be in an specific support formation options with 1/1 relation with core (1 core formation, 1 WE battlesuit formation) to avoid WE spam that makes this list so boring to play against.


No offense, but this makes very little sense to me. Heavy battlesuits were already limited in the transition from the previous iteration of Vior'la list to this one, as they were core before.
Other than that, you probably didn't notice that core to support ratio is 1:2 for Vior'la list (its 1:3 in Third sphere list), and making it 1:1 would definitely cripple the list.


Cachivache wrote:
This list has all the advantages of the NetEA Tau list without any handicap, plus long range fire and increased durability.

If anything, Vior'la lost range comparing to the Third sphere expansion Tau list, as for example every Hammerheads version has a more range than its equivalent Heavy Battlesuit version, or fire warriors losing their 30 cm range shot.
Vior'la list capitalizes on the 15-45cm range while Third Sphere feels more comfortable at 30-75cm range.
Only Supremacy and Stormsurge are an exception to this.


About the "without any handicap" part, Vior'la lost Tetras and piranhas, as they are a mere upgrade to a 200 points formation instead of a super cheap formation itself.
Also, Vior'la lost Barracudas in exchange for Razorsharks, and while they are good enough their cost is 200 points instead of 150, losing some list flexibility.
Not to mention Tigersharks AX-1-0.

Cachivache wrote:
Sincerely, this list seems OP to me. In fact, at this time this list is banned from competitive games in our local player cluster.


This is weird, I didn't have any good results in my local meta and the other players agree that it's underperforming right now.
Could you please bring us more information on what list did you play against?


On the topic of this thread, I wanted to ask some questions about the list:

About broadsides, their Twin Railguns had 60cm range in Third Sphere and 90cm range here, is this a typo?

About the Manta:
-The list doesn't mention it should activate at 1+, but I assume this holds true for this list aswell.
-I don't know if the Manta transport information is clear enough, can I use either infantry or vehicle slots to bring Heavy battlesuits? I think the answer is yes, as that means 6 Heavy battlesuits could be transported in a Manta, which makes sense.
-Did you guys have any good experiences using the Manta deployed with Planetfall full of Heavy battlesuits? It makes sense for a very expensive (and also very fun) alpha strike.


What do you guys think about this list? I'm planing on using it soon, but I can't decide if I'm overrating the Manta alpha strike.


3000 POINTS
NetEA Tau Vior'la (2.2)
==================================================

Core formations:
FIRE WARRIOR BREACHER CADRE [400]
6 Fire Warrior Breacher units, 3 Devilfish, Skyray, Shas'o Commander

FIRE WARRIOR BREACHER CADRE [300]
6 Fire Warrior Breacher units, 3 Devilfish, Skyray

FIRE WARRIOR BREACHER CADRE [250] <-- This one starts inside the Orca
6 Fire Warrior Breacher units, 2 Pathfinder units


Support formations:
BROADSIDE GROUP [300] <-- This one starts inside the Manta
6 XV88 Broadside battlesuits

HEAVY BATTLESUIT CADRE [350] <-- This one starts inside the Manta
Shas'el Commander, 3 XV109 Y'Vahra

KX139 TA'UNAR SUPREMACY [225]
1 KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Battlesuit unit, Pulse-Ordinance Multi-Driver

KX139 TA'UNAR SUPREMACY [225]
1 KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Battlesuit unit, Pulse-Ordinance Multi-Driver


Air caste formations:
MANTA DROPSHIP [575] <-- Deployed by Planetfall

SPACECRAFT [225]
1 Protector Class II Cruiser

ORCA DROPSHIP [150] <-- Deployed as a regular bomber


It's a bit short on activations for my taste, but the Manta is very expensive


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:04 am 
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Cachivache wrote:

Sincerely, this list seems OP to me. In fact, at this time this list is banned from competitive games in our local player cluster.



There are very few people that have played Tau more than me. If this is true, I think who ever your playing is.....well.....cheating the shit out of you. The initial list was as abusive as it gets. The new list has swung too far in the opposite direction. But I am a ghost Keel fan.

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