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Tau Vior'la v2.0

 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:40 am 
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(That was a nice read , your battle reports are swift and to the point and still vivid and fun to digest.)

What models are you guys using for the ghostkeels?


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:25 am 
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yeah, great batreps and test games, I need to get more games in, I've been lazy and playing gargants a lot lately

I'm keen to get some more test games in over the summer, are there any aspect of the list that still need stress testing? is it worth trying an all-heavy suit list (with the minimum pathfinder choices to unlock support slots of course) and seeing how it gets on when riptides are spammed? if only to allay the fears of some of the community ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:29 pm 
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Thanks guys! I appreciate the compliments on the reports, although to be honest it comes from a place of not remembering each little detail haha. When we get to the march for 18, I'll switch over to more turn by turn reports to allow for more analysis.

Ghostkeels are older metal forumware. I've seen some more recent proxies from thingiverse that looks pretty good as well.

For stress testing - I'd try six heavy suit formations. One formation has 4 to serve as the BTS. And I'd go with 3 or 4 pathfinders depending if I'd also want a razorshark or extra markerlights. I think the most glaring downside is no Shas'o, but with six formations activating on 1+, maybe that's not a huge loss.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:27 am 
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Ive found a model on Thingiverse I’m gonna try as a ghostkeel, but roughly what size would you put it at? 20mm? 28mm ? I’m using Onslaughts models as crisis they are around 20 mm , and ghostkeels are supposed to be slightly bigger right?


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Cyguns wrote:
Ive found a model on Thingiverse I’m gonna try as a ghostkeel, but roughly what size would you put it at? 20mm? 28mm ? I’m using Onslaughts models as crisis they are around 20 mm , and ghostkeels are supposed to be slightly bigger right?
Yup! Bigger than a broadside, smaller than a Riptide.

https://images.app.goo.gl/xtAWMKX1LHuJXUCP8

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Looking for feedback on the Supremacy Suits statline comparison from 3BP to the 4x4+/5+. Has anyone had a chance to take this out for a test drive or have any discussion to raise regarding the new? From my perspective, this is the last issue to resolve before accumulating the necessary 18 bat reps for approval.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:16 pm 
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gunslinger007 wrote:
Looking for feedback on the Supremacy Suits statline comparison from 3BP to the 4x4+/5+. Has anyone had a chance to take this out for a test drive or have any discussion to raise regarding the new? From my perspective, this is the last issue to resolve before accumulating the necessary 18 bat reps for approval.

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I have faced the sup with the new stats. (never with the old) It is a distraction nothing more. Next time I face one I would ignore it.

A distraction when list building, as what do you give up activation/points wise for a totally static asset? A distraction for your opponent, as in your wasting away activation on what is not going to kill you. Smashing or containing the riptide sized suits is more important.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:32 am 
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In a post a while back CarlixT mentions the Manta isn’t listed among the +1 initiatives in the Vior’la list, and he assumed it should be at +1 just as in the 3dSphere. I tried but couldn’t find that question ever getting an answer? But it should have an initiative at +1 too right?


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:48 am 
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Must be a typo

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:12 am 
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Had a game this evening against IJW Wartrader's Death Guard. It was a 2-0 victory to Ian at the end of turn 3, but was a much closer business than that result would indicate.
Main take away from both players: the list feels as though nothing is particularly under or overcosted. There's differences even in the core Tau units (Fire Warriors, XV8) that makes the list feel significantly different from vanilla Tau, whilst still feeling very Tau. I didn't take enough markerlights, but that's a me problem :P

Lists as below

Vior'La Tau
==================================================
FIRE WARRIOR BREACHER CADRE [350] Shas'O, 3x Fire Warriors, 2x Pathfinders, 3x Devilfish
PATHFINDERS [225] 6x Pathfinders, 2x Gun Drones
VIOR'LA XV8 CRISIS SUITS [400] Shas'El, 8x XV8
HEAVY BATTLESUITS [350] Shas'El, 3x Riptide
KV128 STORMSURGES [250] 2x Stormsurge
KV139 SUPREMACY [225] Heavy Rail Cannon
KV139 SUPREMACY [225] Pulse Ordnance Multi Driver
XV88 BROADSIDES [300] 6x Broadside
STEALTH GROUP [300] 3x XV15, 3x XV95 (this was an accident which brought me over points slightly, meant to only be 2x XV95)
RAZORSHARK SQUADRON [200] 3x Razorshark
SUNSHARK SQUADRON [200] 2x Sunshark

Death Guard (Epic UK v210617)
==================================================
DEATH GUARD RETINUE [650] Chaos Lord, Plague Tower, 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs
DEATH GUARD RETINUE [625] Chaos Lord, 7 Plague Marines, Plague Tower
DEATH GUARD DEFILER PACK [275] 4 Defilers
DEATH GUARD DEFILER PACK [275] 4 Defilers
PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [175] 3+2D6 Plague Zombies
PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [175] 3+2D6 Plague Zombies
PLAGUEHOUND TITAN [275]
PLAGUEHOUND TITAN [275]
PLAGUEHOUND TITAN [275]

I didn't get a play by play noted down, so I'll run through each formation and give a summary of what I thought.

Breachers: Didn't do all that much, by design. Stayed at the back and acted as a mobile reserve. It's nice having the Shas'O somewhere else than a Crisis Cadre. Pathfinder upgrade is a useful variation. The uniformity of dice in the Breacher stands themselves did somewhat ease the normal admin load of getting in 15cm with vanilla Fire Warriors and many different types of dice being rolled :P

Pathfinders: I like the option of foot Pathfinders. Felt fine, but probably needs more of a stress test to see what taking loads of them as cheap, scouting core formations with markerlights does!

XV8: A nice variation on standard XV8s. In some ways having minimum range of 30cm helps narrow the mind towards the main objective of XV8s- getting into very close range and destroying stuff. Melted a Plague Tower in turn 2 after winning the initiative, then got (Plague)hounded out of existence to give Ian BTS. High risk, high reward. Not having to worry about the Shas'O in there was nice, but I think a Shas'O option in keeping with the fluff wouldn't hurt.

Riptides: How are these guys not a done deal yet? They move fast, shoot fast and tank being shot at but melt in engagements due to lack of Fearless. This is fine. Didn't get to test the AA guns admittedly as Ian never takes aircraft, but I think it's a useful addition in exchange for weaker non-MW shots.

Stormsurges: Again, the basic formula for these guys is well established. Due to poor play on my part didn't get to use the Destroyer Missiles, but I think both 2x Destroyer Missiles or 4x one-shot Destroyer Missiles (the old pattern) are fine.

Supremacy (Heavy Rail Cannon): Vior'La already had very ready access to Macro, so a Volcano Cannon equivalent seems a little excessive. This game however it flubbed two rounds of shooting against a Plague Tower, doing a grand total of one point of damage. ::) Compared to a Shadowsword say, it feels fine, just unecessary is all. If you actually want people to take Stormsurges then I'd remove this option.

Supremacy (Pulse Ordnance Multi Driver): After having a Minigeddon game using the new POMD I was really worried about it. 3BP template Indirect when I played with it before was never really an issue. 4x Disrupt shots benefitting from Markerlights AND Sustain Firing seemed way better. It didn't do that much this game though, and it is an interesting difference from normal artillery. Further testing required.

Broadsides: They're Broadsides. They don't get much love but are actually tough as nails. Next :P (Although there is a typo in that they've got 90cm Railguns on the quick ref sheet!)

Stealth Group: Ghostkeels add an interestign variation. Got no use out of them as I teleported them turn two and they immediately got pounced on and broken for the rest of the game. Further testing required as a result ::)

Razorsharks: Interesting alternative to Barracuda. I always find Hellblades pretty gnarly and these seem similar. However the Razorsharks feel like they need a little bit more shooty.

Sunsharks: They 'aight I guess. Maybe give the BP a special rule for a bit of pizzaz, but they're fine.

So aside from minor quibbles about some choices the list feels in the right place generally. Hope this helped, hopefully I can playtest next week too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:29 am 
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Resa F wrote:
Stealth Group: Ghostkeels add an interestign variation. Got no use out of them as I teleported them turn two and they immediately got pounced on and broken for the rest of the game. Further testing required as a result ::)

By 'immediately', he means after they'd provided the Crossfire bonus and markerlight support that resulted in the Plague Tower dying. ;)

Supremacy (Pulse Ordnance Multi Driver): it didn't do much in this game due to the choice of targets - for example in turn one it shot an untouched Plaguehound (DC4, 2 Void Shields) which is pretty much the worst possible target as all it did was add a BM and strip off both Void Shields, without there being a big gun available to then shoot the unshielded Plaguehound, as there were other targets with higher priority. What would probably have worked better would have been to try and strip the Void Shields with the aircraft, then use the Stormsurge to break the Plaguehound with Disrupt.

The 4-Defiler formations were a much better target, especially as they were my only AA cover, but I'd put a high priority on breaking the Markerlight coverage so being in cover took them back to being AT5 Disrupt which wasn't enough to break the Defilers.

I can see this loadout being very good at clearing out scout screens with Markerlight coverage, much more so than the old Barrage version.


Nothing felt particularly out in power level, and it plays differently enough from the other Tau lists to be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:04 am 
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Thanks for the feedback guys! I'm actually working on drafting up 2.3. Hope to get that posted over the weekend. And for that to be the final draft before playtesting for 18.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:07 am 
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Ok, version 2.3 is live. Changes include:

Supremacy armor POMD back to 3BP. I know there's resistance to this, but besides a historical approach to Tau (which list isn't designed to represent) I haven't seen an example of it being overpowered and it helps to keep it in line with the direction Epic UK is headed, part of the goal of this list design since Tau is the only list that matches up.

Manta's have 1+ initiative.

Fixed broadsides distance.

If you see anything else that needs changes, let me know!

Enjoy and thanks to those helping get this finalized. Barring the exposure of list breaking combinations, I'm hoping to take this iteration to approval.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:46 am 
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gunslinger007 wrote:

Supremacy armor POMD back to 3BP [...] I haven't seen an example of it being overpowered and it helps to keep it in line with the direction Epic UK is headed, part of the goal of this list design since Tau is the only list that matches up.


C'mon, I know you have seen and read a few talks about it, but the biggest problem this unit always had besides coherence is that you have seen several of us reporting that it was an auto-take since Matt-Shadowlord's list and indeed it was: only three times (one mine and it was for testing) from dozens of games since it was put on on.

Well, the real real problem of that weapon is the reason it is so popular which is quite lame, but that would be another topic ...

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Vior'la v2.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:33 am 
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All looks good :) count me in for a half-dozen reports

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