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Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)

 Post subject: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:00 am 
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The renamed and rejigged Armoured Strike force list.

This follows on from the original (and incorrectly named) Fio'Ka list.

As you will see there are quite a few changes to this new list compared with the old Fio'Ka list and these are for various reasons.

v1.0 date: 8/4/16
v1.0.1 date 13/4/16


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TAU XAR KA ARMOURED STRIKE FORCE ARMY LIST 1.0.1.pdf [310.73 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:32 am 
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Looks interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:49 am 
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Crap! Spotted a cut and paste typo. Forgot to take out the (Small arms) MW from the Hammerhead Fusion cannon.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:14 am 
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Excellent work mate, I'll have a closer look to see if there's any typos. But, thanks for putting this together.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:15 am 
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Maybe it's finally time to make that Onslaught order...


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Agreed :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:46 am 
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Thank you for the work you put into this.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Had a game earlier tonight with the list vs Iron warriors and the Tau got up 2-1, T&H and BTS to BTS

Tau were great fun to use, turn 3 very much came down to careful movement and well planned retains at the right time to break / destroy units.

The army feels good, very good at shooting and even better if you're able to set up surgical precision with your markerlights, but drop like flies at the thought of enemy fire, as they should.
It was a tough matchup for the Iron Warriors but they still managed to hang on until the final couple of activations.
Sorry I was unable to record a play by play report due to time constraints.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Have been away in the mountains for a bit, without (shock horror) internet, and wound up putting all of these thoughts into one file - hence one post. Sorry for the overload.


Like the reduction in the size and hence COST of the Mechanized Cadre. Also quite like the composition although if I took more than two I'd probably start to think about the numbers of Skyrays!

Ethereal, think a 75 point upgrade for this is rather high. All the other lists have them for 50 points. And the Vior’la list has inspiring as well for the lower price. You can still only put him on a Fire Warrior unit, as opposed to in a tank for example, so not much more resilient.

Gun Drones, the cost of the upgrades for the Stealth Cadre remains the fairly expensive, previous, version. Might be nice to add four drones but 75 points is rather a lot for a markerlight, activation boosting type of formation. And then they could not teleport either.

Sentry Drone Turrets, like that they can have Scout, useful if they are deployed conventionally. Does not affect the teleport in option. Can’t see myself taking them for 175 points, but, . . . . did build some!!

Piranha, upgraded with the extra Twin Rail Rifles makes them a much more capable (firepower wise) unit. Was there supposed to be an extra OR in that statline? Seeker Missiles OR Fusion Blaster OR Twin Rail Rifles? It also seems to lose the burst cannons and drones with the upgrade. Might be nice to have the differently armed unit(s) with designations, for example have an TX-42 with the upgraded weaponry and the standard TX-4 as the light version.

Hammerhead (Railgun), see that you stuck with the Twin Burst Cannons, rather than smart missiles. Is that part of trying to keep a common cost for the basic Hammerhead Armoured Cadre? Noted that you were intending to drop the small arms MW from the Fusion turret.

The Hammerhead upgrade options don’t mention the other two tank (turret) variants, cost or numbers. The twin missile pods and the plasma rifles versions. Not that I'm ever likely to take them or build them due to enough, and better, anti-infantry firepower elsewhere in the army.

The Orca on the Tau list has armour 4+. Here the Scorpion Fish has reinforced armour 5+ as its basic stat, which is great. The addition of a Tau Deflector Field makes it as good as a Manta. But then all that extra armour means it can’t planetfall or carry troops. It did not get any Hunter missile AA capability, but I see that they only increased to 225 points. Like the change to Init 1+.
I’d rather drop the 2 x Twin Missile Pods and replace them with 2 x Hunter Missiles, as per the Skyray. The addition of Markerlights gives some, close in, direct fire capability with the main batteries.

Barracuda Fighter, is missing the AA5+ on the Ion Cannon stat line.

Tiger Shark Bombers, both regular and AX-1-0, have armour 4+ on the Tau v 6.8. list, here they only have 5+

Custodian Class, does not match the Tau v .6.8.
This list has 3 Salvos each of 3 x MW4+, rather than one salvo of three.
The Tau third phase list also does not have Slow and Steady on this spacecraft.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Andrew_NZ wrote:
Ethereal, think a 75 point upgrade for this is rather high. All the other lists have them for 50 points. And the Vior’la list has inspiring as well for the lower price. You can still only put him on a Fire Warrior unit, as opposed to in a tank for example, so not much more resilient.

Ah! Missed that change. Will amend it.

Andrew_NZ wrote:

Gun Drones, the cost of the upgrades for the Stealth Cadre remains the fairly expensive, previous, version. Might be nice to add four drones but 75 points is rather a lot for a markerlight, activation boosting type of formation. And then they could not teleport either.

Will amend.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Sentry Drone Turrets, like that they can have Scout, useful if they are deployed conventionally. Does not affect the teleport in option. Can’t see myself taking them for 175 points, but, . . . . did build some!!

I removed Teleport and gave them Fearless. I felt with that change we should try them at a slightly higher cost to start with.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Piranha, upgraded with the extra Twin Rail Rifles makes them a much more capable (firepower wise) unit. Was there supposed to be an extra OR in that statline? Seeker Missiles OR Fusion Blaster OR Twin Rail Rifles? It also seems to lose the burst cannons and drones with the upgrade. Might be nice to have the differently armed unit(s) with designations, for example have an TX-42 with the upgraded weaponry and the standard TX-4 as the light version.

You get them as either burst and drones and seeker OR Rail rifles and fusion blaster. I forgot that they should have a different naming convention. Will amend.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Hammerhead (Railgun), see that you stuck with the Twin Burst Cannons, rather than smart missiles. Is that part of trying to keep a common cost for the basic Hammerhead Armoured Cadre? Noted that you were intending to drop the small arms MW from the Fusion turret.

Yeah I felt that as the Cadre keeps the same price across the board that the burst cannon should stay.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
The Hammerhead upgrade options don’t mention the other two tank (turret) variants, cost or numbers. The twin missile pods and the plasma rifles versions.

Missed that! Will amend.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
The Orca on the Tau list has armour 4+. Here the Scorpion Fish has reinforced armour 5+ as its basic stat, which is great. The addition of a Tau Deflector Field makes it as good as a Manta. But then all that extra armour means it can’t planetfall or carry troops. It did not get any Hunter missile AA capability, but I see that they only increased to 225 points. Like the change to Init 1+.
I’d rather drop the 2 x Twin Missile Pods and replace them with 2 x Hunter Missiles, as per the Skyray. The addition of Markerlights gives some, close in, direct fire capability with the main batteries.

I felt the Hunter missile would just make the Skyray take a bit of a back seat so went without. Plus the cost would be ramping up. With all the changes I made adding the Hunter just looked like it carried too much. I wanted to have at least one missile system that allowed non-ML direct fire.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Barracuda Fighter, is missing the AA5+ on the Ion Cannon stat line.

Will amend.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Tiger Shark Bombers, both regular and AX-1-0, have armour 4+ on the Tau v 6.8. list, here they only have 5+

Will amend this also.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Custodian Class, does not match the Tau v .6.8.
This list has 3 Salvos each of 3 x MW4+, rather than one salvo of three.
The Tau third phase list also does not have Slow and Steady on this spacecraft.

Oh, OK . I'll have to re-read my copy of the Third Phase then as I thought I copied it directly. Thanks for all the info Andrew. Much appreciated.

Also, thanks Fudd for the early game play feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:47 am 
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Have updated the typos and made a couple of minor changes for errors and naming conventions etc


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:23 am 
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Just realized I have left the Seeker missile off the Rail Gun Hammerhead.

Apologies to those who have downloaded this list already.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:18 am 
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Just wondering if the one points cost for all variants was intentional?

mostly when comparing the following options

Twin Fusion Cannons 30cm MW4+ (also MW FF)
Twin Plasma Rifles 30cm AP3+ <--- feels like a weaker option at this range

This is more so something another player in my group brought up, it doesn't both me so much as its just not an option I'd run.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:35 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Just realized I have left the Seeker missile off the Rail Gun Hammerhead.

No worries. Sort of hoped it was implied, along with the unit details from the version above.

Dobbsy wrote:
Apologies to those who have downloaded this list already.

No worries here either. Nice to get in there and make it downloaded, . . . once, . . . twice over!!

As a general point following our recent game I looked up the discussion about allocating disrupt, lance, . . . all but MW. The official position is that the defender allocates the hits and therefore the (read as written) expectation is that they will be allocated to minimise the effects. This makes the Rail Gun, AT4+, Lance and the Smart Missile System, AP5+, Ignore Cover, both somewhat less effective in practice than they might otherwise seem. For example:

Shooting at a mixed formation of Landraiders and Rhinos (game before last) the AT Lance hits go on the Rhinos and the regular AT (guided missile) hits go on the Landraiders.
Shooting at an infantry formation the ignore cover hits are applied to those in the open the other hits to those in cover.

In the last game we should have had the Disrupt hits on the Orc Boyz and the regular hits on the Nobz, . . .

Guess I am just saying that there is perhaps not as much of an advantage to the special characteristics where there are other types of similar shots (ie AT or AP) from the same formation. Perhaps we could leave the SMS on the Hammerhead Railgun variants? Perhaps go to the the variable costing on the Railgun variant?

Really cannot see anybody taking the Twin Plasma Rifle variants. Is there anything that could be done to improve that variant? Just saw Fudd's message getting in there first, . . .

Think that the supreme commander upgrade is pretty expensive at 100 points. No personal weapon (not surprising but another nerf).

Did you intend to leave the Scorpionfish upgrade at +175 points when the base/intro rate increased to 225 points. I think it is probably ok since the extra activation is a real loss (generally and specifically here with only 2 support slots per core) especially with Init 1+ on the platform.

With markerlight on the Scorpionfish the main missile loads can be fired (over open sights - as it were) out to 30 cm. So the two extra twin linked missile pods are perhaps less critical. But they are on the Warhammer 40K wiki so that is good enough fluff for me, . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Xar'Ka Armoured Strike List (Experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:55 am 
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Andrew_NZ wrote:
As a general point following our recent game I looked up the discussion about allocating disrupt, lance, . . . all but MW. The official position is that the defender allocates the hits and therefore the (read as written) expectation is that they will be allocated to minimise the effects. This makes the Rail Gun, AT4+, Lance and the Smart Missile System, AP5+, Ignore Cover, both somewhat less effective in practice than they might otherwise seem. For example:

Shooting at a mixed formation of Landraiders and Rhinos (game before last) the AT Lance hits go on the Rhinos and the regular AT (guided missile) hits go on the Landraiders.

I guess it depends on where certain vehicle types are placed in the formation though, given that casualties come from off the front of the formation first. If you're hitting the fm from the side and the rhinos are not the leading units then the LRs are just as easily casualties for Lance. Otherwise, yes you're right. Plus once you whittle down the Rhinos the Lance hits will more likely go on LRs.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Shooting at an infantry formation the ignore cover hits are applied to those in the open the other hits to those in cover.

IC is mainly a bonus when you're firing at "all targets in cover" situations. Also, don't you get to choose if you're going to fire at "all in cover" or "all out of cover?"

Andrew_NZ wrote:
In the last game we should have had the Disrupt hits on the Orc Boyz and the regular hits on the Nobz, . . .

I guess this is just part of the game rules that we have to deal with. Eventually there will likely be a chance there's no "screening" units in front of your juicy targets :)

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Guess I am just saying that there is perhaps not as much of an advantage to the special characteristics where there are other types of similar shots (ie AT or AP) from the same formation. Perhaps we could leave the SMS on the Hammerhead Railgun variants? Perhaps go to the the variable costing on the Railgun variant?

I think special characteristics are situational regardless, it's just how you employ them that matters.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Really cannot see anybody taking the Twin Plasma Rifle variants. Is there anything that could be done to improve that variant? Just saw Fudd's message getting in there first, . . .

Fair enough. Any ideas on what to do with them? I don't have a 40K Tau codex so can't see what optional weapon system HHs can take. I wasn't planning to separately cost HHs but if we have to then we have to. I guess in this list it's more feasible given the focus on armour.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Think that the supreme commander upgrade is pretty expensive at 100 points. No personal weapon (not surprising but another nerf).

TBH I hadn't taken into account the "no weapon" point. I can reduce it to 75 points in future. I did actually consider making it 75 in the first place.

Andrew_NZ wrote:
Did you intend to leave the Scorpionfish upgrade at +175 points when the base/intro rate increased to 225 points.

I did. If you take two the points spread evens out to 200 each. Also, given the convention of price drops on formations I figured it was ok.


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