Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Supremacy Armour

 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:02 pm
Posts: 1774
Location: Newcastle, England
Is it a Warhound equivalent, at least?

_________________
Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:49 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:44 pm
Posts: 67
Not even close. 3 XV109s is costed under 1 Warhound. Even the Supremacy armor that this thread is about doesn't have armor as far as I know. It is like toughness 9 or 10 and I think it has 10 wounds.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:10 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 am
Posts: 706
Quote:
Even the Supremacy armor that this thread is about doesn't have armor as far as I know. It is like toughness 9 or 10 and I think it has 10 wounds.


The Tau KX139 Ta’unar Supremacy Armour is classified as a Gargantuan Creature in 40K, and while it isn't an armoured vehicle with AV values, it's a 600pt+ model in the same league as a 750pt Warhound.
It's only relevant because we're comparing units from that system, but there's been an issue in 40K for a while that Armoured Vehicles, especially theoretically combat orientated ones like Dreadnoughts, have been significantly disadvantaged vs Monstrous (in this case Gargantuan) creatures due to the way the damage rules work. All that to say the fact that this is GC instead of AV doesn't mean it's at a significantly lower power level, they just don't have Epic's nice simple WE rules.

Here's what you get for your 600 points in 40K:

Weapon Skill 3 Ballistic Skill 4 Strength 8 Toughness 9 Wounds 10 I2 A2 Ld9 Save 2+

Toughness 9 (Carnifexes are only T7 for comparison) and a 2+ armour save in 40K this makes the unit very hard to wound - and then it has 10 wounds. It's impressive.
Of course, being Tau it's not much good in combat even with Stomp :D


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:40 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:11 pm
Posts: 262
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark'
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
Quote:
Toughness 9 (Carnifexes are only T7 for comparison) and a 2+ armour save in 40K this makes the unit very hard to wound - and then it has 10 wounds. It's impressive.
Of course, being Tau it's not much good in combat even with Stomp :D


It also have 5+ Invulnerability save or 4+ Invulnerability save vs ranged attacks


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 141
Location: Sweden
I had some time over at work and started thinking about stats for these new war engines KX139 supremacy armour and KV128 stormsurge.

Seeing as both are smaller than a warhound I figured they would be less armoured aswell. But perhaps better armed.

Name. Move. AV. CC. FF.
KV128 Stormsurge. 20cm. 3+. 5+. 4+
DC(3), Tau deflector, Walker, Thick Rear Armour

Weapon. Range. FP. Notes.
Rail accelerator. 60cm. MW2+. FFA, TK(D3)
2x Barrage Missiles. 45cm. 2x AP4+. FFA
2x Seeker missiles. 90cm. AT6+. Guided

Name. Move. AV. CC. FF.
KX139 Supr. Armr. 15cm. 3+. 6+. 3+
DC(4), Tau deflector, Walker, Thick Rear Armour

Weapon. Range. FP. Notes.
2xTri-axis Ion cannon. 45cm. MW4+. FFA
2x Heavy Burst can. 30cm. AP4+AT5+ FFA
2x Smart missiles. 30cm. AP5+. FFA. IC
Pulce ordnance. 60cm. MW2+. FFA, TK(D3)
or. 60cm. 3BP. Ind, MW, slw

They are slower than a scout titan more for static defense than aggressive recon. I feel the lack of good shielding make me wanna have them in an unit with drones preferably unarmed as i feel they have enough FP as is. It fits the Tau style of saraficial drones. The purist will see a tau with BP :-0. But i figured the alternate fire mode best fits the 40k stats but also makes it a downside to using the BP being slow firing (continous fire uses one barrel at the time, as artillery it fires all three at once).

So, OP or worthless?

_________________
/Shoel
My Painting Corner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:55 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: UK
Well one looks a lot better than the other but that doesn't have to be important.

I've no idea about 40k stats but the ordnance does look a bit clunky. If I've understood you correctly you mean to replicate the "either fire one by one, or all at once" choice by including alternative stat lines, one of which is slow firing? Except you could still fire the BP turn 1 and the TK turn 2...

Alternatively (and to preserve the no-BP purity!) you could simply make it 2 or 3 one-shot weapons (maybe MW2+ TK1). So similarly to a formation of vultures you can either fire them all at once or save some for later.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:40 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 141
Location: Sweden
The stormsurge is decidedly smaller than the supremacy armour, so the difference in "quality" is on purpose.
I don't see the BP on a war engine as a problem, as the cost would mean you only get access to a few shots of BP.
I would argue that making one stat line shoot with slow firing would still not allow you to shot with the other stat line the next turn (the slw would affect the same weapon name).

_________________
/Shoel
My Painting Corner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: UK
Well the way stat lines are written would make it awkward, i.e. you'd need to write it twice and even then people might still not be 100% sure.

I don't think BP is a problem per se, it's just Tau so far don't have any and it's quite characterful that way. Also it has the potential to be much more effective than other races' barrage due to markerlights. Being on the receiving end of a template hitting on 2's and with no save isn't going to feel particularly fair. It can also hit you in your own deployment zone on turn 1.

The supremacy armour does seem to have an awful lot of firepower for a small war engine though, especially when you consider the effects of markerlights. Maybe too much for epic (not all units can be translated accurately in epic, especially GWs later creations). And yet it's a bit of a conflicted unit, with that mix of weapons (particularly the indirect barrage).

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:34 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:44 pm
Posts: 67
Take the 2x weapons and make it 1x? The KV139 should be about an even match for a warhound.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 141
Location: Sweden
The warhound has void shields, fearless, better CC, worse save vs normal an TK shots, 2MW shots with slow(vs 1 without slow), 4x AP3/AT5 shots vs (4x AP4 and 2 guided missiles that require markerlight).
I wouldn't say the stormsurge is remarkebly better at shooting than the warhound, but looses out slightly in most all other respects.

I must admit that I had forgoten about the +1 from markerlight, that would have made me give -1 to the MW weapons (the others are sort of given).

_________________
/Shoel
My Painting Corner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:17 am
Posts: 56
What list would the Storm surge and kx128 fit into? Or would this be for a new list entirely? If we were going to make a new list, perhaps we can include ghostkeels, update broadsides (railside/nissleside) and work in different drones including sniper?

Maybe this is too much, but the tau are lacking I units when compared to other Xenos in epic like eldar. . . But I guess everyone is lacking in variety of units when compared to the eldar.

_________________
[My eldar](http://m.imgur.com/zObS9SJ)
[My Tau](http://m.imgur.com/a/8oSqy)
Looking for top fins wings and stabilizers for eldar air units. Hit me up if u have them or ideas on how I can replace them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:30 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 141
Location: Sweden
Vior'la for sure. The whole point of Vior'la (atleast the way I see it) was to get the Riptide in there. To me it feels like the perfect place for them (but i don't understand why not the basic list also could be updated to include these options.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

_________________
/Shoel
My Painting Corner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 am
Posts: 706
Shoel wrote:
Vior'la for sure. The whole point of Vior'la (atleast the way I see it) was to get the Riptide in there. To me it feels like the perfect place for them (but i don't understand why not the basic list also could be updated to include these options.



Then you will be pleased to see that the Vior'la list now has both of these. Feedback is welcome.

Note that the profiles are not nearly as strong as some of the above suggestions, but I hope you will understand this is primarily for balance and price-setting reasons.

This incarnation of the KV128 Stormsurge has a one-shot TK(1) weapon. The 40K version has 4 one-shot Destroyer missiles, which could justify it just being TK(1) without the one-shot rule, but any sort of TK has to be expensive; the tK(D3) suggested above has to be very expensive.

Quote:
I must admit that I had forgoten about the +1 from markerlight, that would have made me give -1 to the MW weapons (the others are sort of given).


Tau in 40K have had blast templates for a decade, and Vior'la have had them in Epic for about 3 years with no objections raised. However, it was the arrival of a Mech with BP that made me add this special rule:

Code:
Voir'la Tau Barrage Weapons
Voir'la Tau Barrage Weapons do not benefit from bonus to-hit effect of markerlights.


That prevents Tau units from acheiving better to-hit rolls than other races. If any BP weapons are added to the primary Tau list I'll recommend the rule goes along with them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Supremacy Armour
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:53 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 141
Location: Sweden
I really like the markerlight/barrage rule, and it kind of makes realworld(tm) sense. A barrge will by it's nature not kill everything within its area.
When it comes to the power of the suits I freely admit that my rules are considerably more powerful and that's because I envisioned them as kind of pocket titans. Seeing as Tau are unlikely to get any "real" titans it would fill an artifical hole in the list.
But remember my play experiance with Tau is 0 :-) so take everything I say with scepticism.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

_________________
/Shoel
My Painting Corner


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net