My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice |
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice  Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:05 pm |
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Greetings,
I'm tasked with running 4K of AMTL this weekend for the first time. We are playing the traditional 6 objective tourny style game of 3/4 turns. The results of which will impact our summer campaign greatly. "WH40K - Titan Pens" are at stake!
This is an E:A battle of course but fought over a 4x8 field with half of the table being absolutely covered in a massive city with hive spire towards the heart of the city. The other half of the table will be densly populated with terrain but more of the hive city outskirts manufactories cathedral, and various lightly wooded outcroppings. LOS will be there, but this is not your typical "open table" atmosphere.
I typically play IG, Chaos, and Tau - IG is my staple I've encountered the orks roughly a dozen or so times usually while I'm playing IG. I've ran the orks myself 3 or 4 times in E:A.
So with this basis of knowledge, I'm seeking advice in building and playing the AMTL list at 4K vs this xenos foe. I'm looking for 'mix of formations' that work well together and general knowledge sepcific to the list that I should be concious of. Any help / insite that can be provided is much appreciated.
Good day,
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Rob
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nealhunt
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:16 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Don't underestimate the ability of Orks in FF. Depending on the army composition, they can lay a lot of BMs and any engagement against a single titan will likely have you outnumbered more than double, giving the orks a big lead on assault mods before kills. If they strip some shields, you will have a rough time in FF even with their lousy to-hit numbers.
You will also need to watch for Zzap Gunz. You will have a hard time getting LoS, but because the Zzap Gunz are often on fast vehicles, they won't have the same problem. Even on a double move, that's a TK(d3) hitting on a 4+, and they can put up to 3 in a formation for only 500 points.
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To be honest, I fear that if your opponent knows he is facing AMTL, the orks can gear up with so many specifically anti-titan units, formations, and strategies that it will be rather brutal for you.
If it were me, I'd go for:
Zzap Gun and Soopa Gun upgrades
Air assaults
Mount all warbands for rapid movement
Air assaults would pick off Warhounds and key support formations, possibly even assaulting battle titans if enough support were lined up. The landas can take off and strafe in following turns and/or land again to capture objectives which you will have a hard time guarding.
Mounted warbands and vehicle formations would use cover to try to divide and conquer the titans by using terrain to keep titans from supporting each other effectively. There will probably also be a lot of potential to generate crossfire opportunities by small, fast formations.
TK and MW weapons have obvious application.
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:40 pm |
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NH,
Thanks for the reply.
I agree, I have my challenges agasint the orks. I like the list and think it can be very deadly. (I actually hate orks in 40K and really like them in E:A).
Playing AMTL doesn't seem to make things easier. I'm quite new to the list and my opponent is not a veteren of E:A, but he has only played orks in E:A and has become quite comfortable with the potential in his list. He's an electrical engineer by trade and is no kid mind to underestimate in tactics.
I thank you for citing what you would take and how you would approach an AMTL list.
My opponent does indeed know he's facing me and the AMTL list. He also knows I know nothing of the list outside of reading about it.
BTW: that brings up a point... What list should I be using as the GM has instructed us both to use the most current lists available for our games - experimental or not. If a link can be provided from where the list is located - that would be great.
PS - I don't know if the Orks are using book orks, speed freaks, or other ork list... I simply know that I'm playing against 'orks in general'. (Feral orks can be ruled out though as the model count is not available.)
OK, so knowing what you would probably take against AMTL - what would you recommend a newb AMTL player consider in his aresenol at 4K considering the already posted info?
Many thanks again NH.
(PS, it's good to talk about something other than recent topics with you) 
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Rob
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The_Real_Chris
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:42 am |
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I would advise against an anti ork list - I always such meta gaming list creation a bit dodgy. Go for the most powerful list you can think of in general.
Get the 4 strong thunderbolts.
Get a 'support' Reaver with 2 quake cannon and a carapace landing pad. This is blitzkrieg guard/indirect fire support.
Couple of packs of warhounds are always good.
For a cityfight and for flavour how about a corvus assualt pod on a warlord with a devotional bell and carrying preatorians. It is a city fight after all!
Some infantry is nigh compulsory with all that terrain.
Couple of packs of warhounds is always a bonus then perhaps one of the ordinatus - the sonic cannon one?
_________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:36 pm |
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Hey guys,
We didn't get to play yesterday due to 'event change' in the campaign. We still have to play the game, but some metrics have changed. The only significant change in consideration to my army build strategy is that I not only have to win this game, but I have to do so without losing "MORE THAN" 50% of the total amount of titans that I field. (So if I field 4 titans, I have to win and avoid losing 3 titans.)
So, now with this new constraint... and a full week to prepare a list against the orks - I'm thinking one of two modes...
I could go titan heavy 4K game, so all warhounds and a warlord... 950 spend on the warlord and then the rest on warhound packs. (1 warlord, 6 warhound packs, 1 monat warhound) means I would have 14 titans and he would have to kill 8 titans (probably warhounds)... At 4K though, it doesn't seem terribly difficult to kill 8 warhounds. I wouldn't have any other auxilia this way either.
So I was thinking I could go titan light but use the big boys... 1 warlord (950)and 3 reavers (650 x 3) = 2900.... Then I could use the rest of the points to for auxilia and what not. He would have to take out 3 of the 4 big boys this way and I'd get 1100 points for som titan support.
anywy, these are the two ideas I'm kicking around.
I was going to run 1 warlord, 2 reavers, and 3 warhounds, but that was before I heard of this latest 'he must kill more than 50% of my titan models' critera... so that has thrown a pretty big pipe wrench into the plans.
BTW: I'm working off of the AMTL WIP 2 list... The group said I can use either list (V1 or AMTL WIP 2)... is one list better than the other with this latest consideration?
Thanks,
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Rob
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:04 pm |
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BTW: is anyone testing V2 yet? what lessons are being learned (this might be better for a secon thread...).
I'm wondering as I notice I've been spending a lot of time reading and working with the v2 list, but don't know if its 'complete enough' or if others are even using it...
hmm...
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Rob
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nealhunt
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:21 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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I think the dense terrain is going to be your driving factor in strategic choices. The desire to keep titans intact will be second consideration.
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Ork ranged fire is light, and you will have the additional advantage of being able to approach their positions under cover. Assault titans will be a solid choice as they will take little damage on the way in and can still stand up strong to Ork assaults in close quarters.
One strategy would be to take strong-FF titans with screening Auxilia to keep them out of CC. The trick in the terrain will be to keep them in support range and LoS of the screens. A secondary, target-of-opportunity tactic would be to use the titan to initiate FF against an Ork formation while positioning for a second FF support, then use the Auxilia to initiate the second FF with the titan supporting. A nice feature of this tactic is that the support formations don't need to be very fast (Reavers only move 20cm), so you can save some points on transport.
A Veteran Reaver with Chainfist, Laser Burner, Melta Cannon (tactical weapon) and Icon comes in at 700 points and should be able to face down some pretty big mobz with sheer numbers of casualties inflicted. Or change the Melta Cannon for an Inferno Gun for better ranged fire and slightly lighter FF.
An artillery titan is also a very good choice - no LoS needed and barrages to take advantage of anticipated clustering of orks given the terrain.
I don't disagree with TRC on the loadout, but I think it's a tough choice. It depends on your intended target. Vehicles will be in the open and have light saves so the MW is not needed, while infantry will no doubt be getting their 4+ cover save in buildings. Consider it carefully.
In addition to the Reaver/Quake Cannon option, a Warlord Legate with 3 MRLs and Landing Pad could hold your Blitz and T&H objectives while providing fire support over the majority of the board and give you a relatively safe SC.
For general titan armament, anti-Ork ranged fire in heavy terrain should definitely include Inferno Guns and Vulcan Megabolters. Given likely LoS (and therefor range) restrictions, the VMB is undoubtedly the best ranged weapon choice, and it's a tactical weapon so it doesn't use your support slots. Ignore Cover from the Inferno guns will also have obvious applications. A Reaver with 1 Inferno Gun and 2 VMBs would probably be as close to perfect for this situation as possible.
A pair of Warhounds with VMBs and Inferno Guns would be a great flanking element. If you added a small mounted formation to it for support I think it could be quite durable, even against an air assault. Their speed would be comparable and the option to move/shoot with the Warhounds followed by a FF with the Skitarii platoon could hit out to a substantial range.
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As far as maintaining titans, I would keep the number of Warhounds small. They are easy for Orks to pick off so I suspect they would hurt more than the bulk numbers would help.
I would count on one support formation for each titan/warhound pack as a minimum. You'll need it to screen against and support in assaults. I might even go for 2 per formation for those titans which would be pressing forward on the attack - 1 to screen in front and 1 to support from behind and replace the screen when it dies (and it will).
I would definitely have some CMLs scattered around to place BMs on any air assaults. The Tbolts TRC recommended are also a good idea if you expect significant air. Even if you guess wrong, they are pretty good for ground attack.
Hope that helps.
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I agree, this is much better than recent topics. 
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Neal
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:09 am |
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Terrain will definitely be a barrier for me. I need to try and use it to my advantage though. I think you might be onto something there with the the landing pad upgrade.
I wonder, which is better 3 support weapons QC on a Legate Warlord plus landing pad for 6BP Macro-Weapon (two templates) at 180cm. covers table if fielded in center of my side Blitz obj.
*or*
3 tactical weapon MRL on a Legate Warlord plus landing pad for 9BP (Three Templates) at 120cm. (if fielded in center, almost goes to opposing corners on 4x8' table.
vs. the war engines I'm sure he'll have, the MW is tempting. vs. the mass infantry he's sure to have, the 9BP is ugly.
I'm contemplating going the 1 warlord and three reaver route. it means he'd have to blow up two reavers and a warlord to get his objective. I'd take no warhounds that way to give him no easy ways out either. In this mode, I'd hold back a reaver not a warlord though... that would also mean the reaver would become the long range expert. Maybe it would have 2 support QC's and a landing pad for a 4BP macro-weapon barrage at 180cm... hmm... that's appealing actually. I could also put CML.
OK, you've given me quite a bit to think about.
I agree, the warhounds need to be kept to a minimum in this game... frankly, I'm not sure I want to field any. the more I think about it, the worse of a proposition it sounds to me. Having to kill three big boys is tough in a 4 turn game. I just need to conserve enough points for the Auxilia I need.
Two independent warhounds on each flank may be worth contemplating. fast movement late game is worth considering.
OK, so I have some ideas on the titan front. Auxilia... on paper, the infantry look pretty bad. No great FF units to support the numbers. still scratching my head there and will have to work with the points more.
I like the looks of the 6 tank leman formations, no upgrades is a bummer.
General question: is legate going to be the only supreme commander option for the list?
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Rob
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Tactica
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:37 am |
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| Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 2005 July,04:42) | |
TRC,
Get the 4 strong thunderbolts.
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In AMTL... are they worth the milage v orks?
Get a 'support' Reaver with 2 quake cannon and a carapace landing pad. This is blitzkrieg guard/indirect fire support.
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I discounted this originally, I've seen the light. I'm going to take you up on this recomendation I think.
I'm scared of taking warhounds in this mission frankly... If my opponent blows up more than half my total number of titans.
Some infantry is nigh compulsory with all that terrain.
Can't say I disagree with you here. I just can't say I'm really impressed with the infantry here.
perhaps one of the ordinatus - the sonic cannon one?
YEAH - I'm right there with you here. It's already in. 
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Rob
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The_Real_Chris
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Post subject: My First AMTL v Orks - requesting advice Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:53 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 20 2005 July,07:37) | |
In AMTL... are they worth the milage v orks? |
I thought you knew Tactica I love Thunderbolts? If you deal with the flak you can shoot LV formations up with 8+ shots and 4 5+ shots. Though I guess Hydra/CML are the safer option for air defence (even I don't rate thundrbolts in the interceptor role).
I'm scared of taking warhounds in this mission frankly... If my opponent blows up more than half my total number of titans. |
Perhaps this requirement means it is warhound heavy or not at all?
Can't say I disagree with you here. I just can't say I'm really impressed with the infantry here.
Have you ever used a formation of 8 fearless infantry? And usefully vs Orks AMTL troops carry a lot of AP weapons.
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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
LOL - say it ain't so! Yeah, although I know you have a Tbolt enfactuation, I was hoping to query the AMTL experience side of your brain more than the side that says "I'm a tbolt fan of 50+ units and still collecting!"
If you deal with the flak you can shoot LV formations up with 8+ shots and 4 5+ shots. Though I guess Hydra/CML are the safer option for air defence (even I don't rate thundrbolts in the interceptor role).
Exactly... I'm wondering if something like 1 Warlord and 3 reavers + auxilia is the right path. No hydras or tbolts for the titans protection and taking CML on all the formations. One reaver to sit back with 2x Quake + landing pad while the forward 2 reavers and warlord form the hunting party. Sonic Ordinatus would sit back and provide 'covering fire' as well.
I'd force him into dealing with my forward three titans and would save the tbolt/hydra points for the remaining auxilia.
I just don't know if CML can deal with all those planes.
LOL - say it ain't so! Yeah, although I know you have a Tbolt enfactuation, I was hoping to query the AMTL experience side of your brain more than the side that says "I'm a tbolt fan of 50+ units and still collecting!" 