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Questoris Mechanicus v1.53 (Developmental)

 Post subject: Questoris Mechanicus v1.53 (Developmental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:45 pm 
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After having looked very carefully at the various Knight lists out there I noticed that there's a lack of representation of a Knight-list based on GWs current Knight line-up, not to mention their brand new codex. Also, with A-T coming up, and hopefully making all types of Knights available, there would be official models for them, not just unofficial stuff.

For this reason, I've put together Questoris Mechanicus, which really is a re-worked version of the previous House Raven list. I did take a look at doing House specific lists, but decided against it for two reasons: It would make playtesting harder as people would be playing different lists, and Questoris Mechanicus Houses doesn't have all that much personality to begin with. While House Cadmus might have been an exception, and could have made for a nice companion to the existing AMTL-list, it's actually not a Questoris Mechanicus House at all according to current fluff.

Battle reports done with v1.51
Vs NetEA Emperor's Children

Battle reports done with v1.5
Vs NetEA Orc Warhorde

Update v1.47 17/9
-> Changed the wording of the Ion Shield rule to make clear that it works against FF attacks (unless caused by supporting fire of course).

Update v1.52 27/9
Bunch of changes and updates after having had two test games with the list on TTS against Norto and Argol. I've also changed the status of the list to developmental after these two games, as I think there's a really solid foundation to build on here.

-> Reintroduced the "Lightning Charge" rule (that shock lances only gets FS when charging). Felt like the Lancers were way too strong in defense otherwise. Feel like they're a competitive, but definitely not overpowered choice now.
-> Armiger Knights now 150pts for 4, making them the activation booster of choice in the army. Which I think is entirely appropriate.
-> Dominus Knight +25pts, since they're really shooty and tough.
-> Baron -25pts, since one ends up paying double for certain abilities.
-> Reduced cost of Acastus Knights
-> Skitarii +25pts
-> Reaver 600pts and Warlord 775pts. Right now it feels like the Crippling Damage rule doesn't have all that much impact, and I think their loadouts are pretty solid. But they're definitely more fragile against opponents that has the tools to kill them.
-> Maruder Bombers -25pts
-> Harmonized weapon stats slightly, making it easier to combine dice from different weapons when shooting.
-> Acheron and Castigator Knights have slightly different weapon stats. The Acheron got back BP attacks, and the Castigator Knight's Castigator Cannon has the same stats as the Slaanesh weapon with the same name. Think this was needed to differentiate them from each other and from the Questoris loadouts.
-> Knight-Preceptor got AT2+ on its Las-Impulsor
-> Thundercoil Harpoon now TK(D2)
-> Onager Dune Crawler with Eradication Beamer lost EA +1 on it's MW, now just straight MW in FF.

Update v1.53 11/10
Update time:

-> Discovered that the Dominus Knight is just a pimped Imperial Knight, and not bigger as I had first assumed (was hard to tell from the photos). This has led me to alter its stats somewhat, and it is now a 2DC WE. The weapons are also slightly nerfed in power and range. The good news is that they're also a lot cheaper.

-> The Acastus Knight Porphyrion got a slightly more all-round loadout, with Autocannons replacing the Lascannons and the Helios Defense Missiles being more useful as well. The Acastus Mechanicum got MW4+ on its Acastus Conversion Beamer.

-> Onager Dune Crawler with Eradicator Beamer is slightly shootier.

-> The Knight-Gallant now has a Icarus Twin Autocannon instead of the missile pod. Was a bit frustrating to be forced to take Knight-Crusaders in every formation that wanted embedded AA, and this gives both the Gallant and the Warden clear roles in the army.

-> Made the Relic formations slightly cheaper, but fixed the size of the Questoris Relic Knights to 3.

Temporary Army Forge File for Questoris Mechanicus v1.53 can be found @
https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... icus_NETEA


Attachments:
Questoris Mechanicus v1,53.pdf [160.58 KiB]
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Last edited by Mrdiealot on Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:53 pm, edited 114 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.1 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.0 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:12 pm 
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I'll comment more in depth later, but why not just let folks pick from the AMTL and Skitarii lists for allies?

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.0 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
I'll comment more in depth later, but why not just let folks pick from the AMTL and Skitarii lists for allies?


To keep variety in check I guess? Lots of stuff in there already. I'm usually conservative about allowing too much freedom of choice, but if the core of the list seem to work, I'm open for trying that.

Also, I'm aiming for a mechanized theme to the list, and I think the Skitarii in the Gorgon fits well. But there might be other ways of solving that.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Ok, so further thoughts:
Nobles: This is a weird formation. 5 knights is pretty heavy. I'd go with the standard 3 and allow upgrades to add the schenshal and additional knights. It's also potentially very unbalanced as I don't think every configuration is of equal value. I'd start with a base (paladin) and then allow additional knights to be added and individuals to be upgraded to alternate loadouts for an appropriate cost.

Armiger: FYI we 're renaming the AMTL forge knights to this with no stat change. Just keep that in mind.

Cerastus: This has the same issue as the Nobles. Castigators and Ascherons are probably worth more than lancers.

Skitarii: doesn't match the current Skitarii formation, probably should. Knights probably wouldn't have access to skitarii on their own. I'd probably drop the gorgon and go with a Triaros or similar or minorus with a corvus pod.
Avengers: stats don't match Skitarii list.
Ark Mechanicus: Knights probably wouldn't have access to this.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
Ok, so further thoughts:
Nobles: This is a weird formation. 5 knights is pretty heavy. I'd go with the standard 3 and allow upgrades to add the schenshal and additional knights. It's also potentially very unbalanced as I don't think every configuration is of equal value. I'd start with a base (paladin) and then allow additional knights to be added and individuals to be upgraded to alternate loadouts for an appropriate cost.


Nobles are 4 in a formation. The Seneschal is a character upgrade. Think 4 makes them a bit beefier, and giving them a character makes up for lack of flexibility.

I'd rather make changes so that the configurations are of (roughly) equal value than mess around with small differences in points. And in modern fluff, they're all just configurations of a single platform, so making the Paladin standard isn't really motivated anyway.

Vaaish wrote:
Armiger: FYI we 're renaming the AMTL forge knights to this with no stat change. Just keep that in mind.


Sounds a bit odd to rename the forge knight to something it isn't? Why create a conflict with current GW stuff?

Vaaish wrote:
Cerastus: This has the same issue as the Nobles. Castigators and Ascherons are probably worth more than lancers.


Yeah, the Lancer might be worth less as is. Might make the shield even better.

Vaaish wrote:
Skitarii: doesn't match the current Skitarii formation, probably should. Knights probably wouldn't have access to skitarii on their own.


According to House Raven fluff, they're extremely close to Mechanicus. So I think this way of including them works. Swapping the Gorgon for a Tiraros might work, looks pretty cool. Can make them the same as Skitarii.

Quote:
Avengers: stats don't match Skitarii list.


Thought they did? I'll check it again.

Quote:
Ark Mechanicus: Knights probably wouldn't have access to this.


Yeah, you might be correct. Not the most important formation in the list, might as well drop it completely.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Quote:
Nobles are 4 in a formation. The Seneschal is a character upgrade. Think 4 makes them a bit beefier, and giving them a character makes up for lack of flexibility.

I'd rather make changes so that the configurations are of (roughly) equal value than mess around with small differences in points. And in modern fluff, they're all just configurations of a single platform, so making the Paladin standard isn't really motivated anyway.

It wasn't clear that the formation was 4 units. I'd move the scheneshal. Generally I agree 4 is beefier but I'm thinking that starting with three is more flexible for those using the Knightworld list. You already have the upgrade for more knights so why not just match the base formation and let players add an extra.

Just be careful with the configs. I suspect it'll be harder to balance without adjusting weapons stats on things that might already have stats defined than it would be to just make them upgrades with points changes.

Quote:
Yeah, the Lancer might be worth less as is. Might make the shield even better.

2+ seems excessive.

Quote:
Sounds a bit odd to rename the forge knight to something it isn't? Why create a conflict with current GW stuff?


To move from a fan made unit to one that exists in the fluff. Stats are fairly similar overall with the primary difference being the weapon they have isn't melta. I suspect that GW will eventually add variants anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Think making the formation less flexible than Knight World somewhat compensates for all the flexibility that all the variants gives, but giving them a Leader as standard compensates somewhat. Kind of like giving certain formations a character as standard, gives them a bit of flavor.

Not sure what to do with the Cerastus Lancer to be honest, maybe someone has a suggestion?

About the Armiger I can see the idea, but I still don't really agree with creating a conflict. What to call what's supposed to be the real Armiger in this list (or others) to avoid confusion? Think Forge Knight is a perfectly fine name.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:27 pm 
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You could just match the AMTL stats.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Those stats don't make much sense in this list to be honest, no other Knight has Infiltrate for starters, and 4+ Reinforced makes no sense either, looking at the model. The weaponry is off compared to the model, and finally, they represent totally different things from a fluff point of view.

If you look at the Armiger fluff, they're for aspiring Knights. I don't really see what those guys would be doing in a list that don't have any other Knights:

Quote:
The Armiger is smaller than its cousins and is crewed by aspiring nobles, low-born commoners with a knack for war, or even the Cad children of Barons and High Kings. In battle the Armigers fight at the flanks of their larger kin, like packs of hounds hunting with their medieval lords

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knight_Armiger


And that's all I've got to say on the names of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.2 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Full explanation:
Stat wise Armigers are about as tough as a Leman Russ but has an inv save from the ion shield so 4+ RA with an INV save would be appropriate. While they could have a 30cm+ movement speed, they are meant for hitting targets ahead of the main force and they like to attack up close. Infiltrator nets them a 40cm engagement move which I think does a pretty good job of showing the speed aspect along with the close fighting aspect.

Weapons wise, the manipulators aren't a bad analogy to what a reaper chain-cleaver would get stated out at anyway which just leave the cannon and I'm comfortable with them being armed a bit differently than GW as I suspect we'll see more variants.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.2 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:48 pm 
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Well, that's up to you. The Armigers in this list will stay close to the fluff.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.21 (experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.22 (experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Post updated.

Had my first game ever with the Knight World against Argol's Scions of Iron in Tabletop Simulator, and that game confirmed my impressions of Knights in general. Looking forward to being able to put House Raven on the table!

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.25 (experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Post updated. Version 1.25 is slightly more flexible than before.

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