To answer for E&C while he's away:

Basically the current 40k restrictions are that only scout weapons and apocalypse missile launchers can go on the carapace of battle titans, and can't go on the arms.

And why is this disliked? And why is the change of one range of one weapon that bad? I do not want to sound rude, I am just curious.

It's disliked because many people already have titans modelled which do not fit with those restrictions.

The weapon change isn't a viable choice because it would mean changing the titans in the space marine and imperial guard lists, which isn't within the remit of the AMTL champion.

For anyone interested in the Wh40k view of things please look at this thread (perhabs should be stickied?):
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12279

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Hm, ok. I see why the proposal is disliked and this would be bad if the guys had to change their titans.

But how does it effect the titans in the Marine and Guard list if we change the TLD only on the warhound to 45cm? If I recall correctly the warhounds in these lists do not use TLDs, right? I am a bit sticky to this because I think this would solve the TLD problem quite elegantly.

There is no background reason why the TLD would be shorter ranged on a warhound.

However, background rationalizations are available.

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I'd also like to add that just because the apocalypse rule book restricted the weapon types that can be carapace-mounted, it doesn't mean that GW or FW would actually follow those restrictions when and if they ever get around to making their own warlord.

Think about it - the missile launcher isn't a scout weapon, but because it was such an iconic look for the titan to have one, they went ahead and allowed it on the Reaver carapace. I doubt they'd do any different with the warlord.

I too think that to deny a rules change because of the background is not an approach we should take. To create a fluff reason would be easy. If there are considerations against this change on a rules perspective I would be eager to hear them. I might miss something here.

If you change things without background reasoning you end up with something that is no longer set in the 40k universe. It might be a great game, but it won't be epic.

I am not necessarily in favour of changing the TLD range to 45cm. But...

If that turned out to be the best way to balance the llst and all the weapons in it then I do not think that the background would prevent that.

The background reasoning/rational can be anything from less powerful reactor/less advanced targetting systems/less elevated firing position/older STC/newer STC/etc. The point being it is possible to explain in a way that is perfectly acceptable in the 40k universe.

It is stretching things way too far to suggest that "changing the range of a weapon will somehow make the game not epic"*.

What makes Epic Epic is the existance of Space Marines, Orks, Titans and all the iconic races and units from the 40k universe. Not the range of a weapon. As I understand things from reading Black Legions posts the Volcano Cannon has a different range on Reavers to Warlords, the AMTL list does not follow that, does that mean its not Epic?

*(especially a weapon that has already had its ranged changed once - with no great waves caused)

I agree with you in principle. The background should be a vital part of the game and the developement. And in the end the fluff is what makes us play epic.

My proposal for a background reason would be, that the plasma reactor is too small to grant the TLD on a warhound the same range as on a battle titan. This was mentioned earlier and I think it is a reasonable explanation and is not that far fetched.

Edit: ninjad Clausewitz states better what I wanted to say

I've always liked the idea of a varient fire support warhound with a hunched over appearance and a lowered head allowing the rocket launcher on its back to fire, with some sort of secondary weapon system in a center line mount. possibly due to all those battletech novels I was given to read as a kid (question, what happened to the gray death legion?).

The Gray Death Legion were virtually wiped out (*spit*) in the new fluff when Jordan Weisman took things back over. Because moving the setting past 3025 is evil, so we have to do anything possible to get it back to 3025! ANYTHING!

In the interim, they had grown from a company to a regiment or more, found the Helm cache, and (IIRC) seceded from the Lyran Alliance due to Katrina's general bitchiness. IIRC.

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a quick question, out of curiosity, but how many people use Support Formations that arent sentinels and/or thunderbolts?
does anyone use the others in the AMTL list?

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