Played against the new Ork Big Gargant list (3.04) again (Bristol tourney prep) and lost this time (could probably had gone to a dull draw instead at 1 point each). Quick summary of what I took and what happened w/ it:
- 4 Paladins w/ Baron as BTS: still hard to destroy completely due to the Baron's fearlessness, still a bit meh - they can hold the line but aren't very dynamic due to slow move and unspectacular guns.
- 4 paladins alone: went to catch some objectives that were uncontested, their role would best be done by cheapo sentinels but didn't bring them as they take a support slot and cost a minimum of 175
- 4 errants + 4 errants w/ seneschal: were given the hard job of trying to at least entertain the mega-gargant for a bit so its presence wasn't felt but got the sh*t kicked out of them even though they were in cover. Got assaulted by lootas and the mega-garg's support fire was devastating.
- 3 trebuchets + 3 trebuchets: finally after all these games somebody went after them! I was facing 3 fms of ork fighters and the trebuchets were taken out quickly or at least broken beyond repair. Definitely not worth more than 150.
- Warhound w/ infernos: still awesome! Will start taking a 2nd warhound too, perhaps w/ 2 vulcans.
- 2 castellans: one died tripping in a tree, the other got shot by a gargant and then assaulted by it.
- 2 crusaders: shot ineffectively 3 times at the smaller gargant. Didn't have their kind of targets on the table.
- 2 lightnings: did well I suppose considering they were the only AA but were out-shined by the ork fighters

Not any new changes compared to what I proposed earlier based on this game but I will change my list for the next game.

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Any more progress on this list?

I was quite happy with the changes in this version but I looks like play testing has dried up? I don't have an opponent at present as the other epic gamers have moved south with work and the new recruits are still at the initial collecting/painting stage.

I would like to trial the Wardens with indirect on the frag launcher, 2BP or alternatively a disrupt/ignore cover. The 1Bp, 45cm attack seems a waste of time in comparison to the other 2 choices. Preference would be for indirect, potentially providing an alternate to the trebs.

My other thought after the last game was to move the Paladin to 3+ in CC and go back to 3 for 300pts. From the old fluff I thought the Paladins were the experienced knights and with the suit having a comparable CC rig to the Errants I could easily see them being on par in CC. I think this would make them more attractive and useful for holding the line whilst the spec knights aim to work to their strengths.

MV,
Perhaps these suggestions go against your intent but at this stage I can't see them altering the character of this list in any great way, but rather a balancing of the current knight platforms/weapon options.

Cheers

There's been a slowing of development, but it seems to be across almost all lists. And I'd attribute most of that to the focus on getting the Compendium complete, and not wanting to put up changes before the official release.


The Wardens, not just the Frag Launcher versions, are the one that I'm definitely wanting to take a closer look at. I've not really been happy with cost/effect on these since the change to MotO. I just didn't want to rush to fix them, and over-correct. I'll probably see them change in value, than effectiveness, as it was an 'intent' thing that they have a mecha-portable version of the Secured Weapons. But if that starts being difficult, I'll look into keeping or increasing the costing, and making them more useful. But yes, Wardens are definitely on the change list.


I'm not against changes to the Paladins, but I always saw them as filling the role of Tactical Marines. More numerous, less specialized. While Titanicus did have them comparable to Errants, it also put Errants in a too-specialized role, that wasn't an issue under Titanicus due to the focus on War Engines. The perceived loss of effectiveness on a Paladin has been at the broadening of the Errants into broader useful tool.

While I'm still not completely happy with the Paladins, it'd need more than a 3+CC to value them at 300 IMO, and I also had in mind, at least, that each Knight Class filled a specific (but not too specialized) role. In the case of the Paladin, it was a more directed maneuver firepower role. CC being the domain of Errants, FF for Lancers, and Custodians being faux-Artillery. But that's not set in stone either, as they currently don't have a significant firepower advantage over the others, and I can't see the Lancers getting less, or the Paladins getting more.


There's nothing disagreeable in any of the suggestions, and in the case of the Wardens, I'll definitely be doing some work. But for now, I'll probably keep the Paladins as the base workhorse, without specialization. While I do source from WD Compendium 3 (Space Marine), and Codex Titanicus (Titan Legions), I don't want to adhere slavishly to either, as I feel the game focus has changed significantly since then, specifically with the relative rarity of true War Engines in the modern game. Making the Force work well against Mechanicus/GBM/Eldar Titan armies, and comparatively weak against others, would turn what's already a niche army into essentially a scenario-specific one. And I don't think anyone wants that.

Morgan Vening

I'll likely use them this week so any trial changes to Wardens or anything else I'd be up for trying. Let me know.

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After playing 3 games in Bristol and 2 games after that here are some comments:
- ATSKNF works like it should. Stuff will still break because of low numbers. For example, in one of the games in Bristol I had nearly all my fms broken by the end of the game because of taking BMs from 1k's worth of fighta-bombas even though I didn't lose that many actual knights.
- the 2+ initiative with no modifiers for preferred actions is a major PITA. It's a very limiting factor and I think it makes up for the masses of 4+ RA stuff you can bring. Also, access to a supreme commander is not that easy or cheap so you do miss a lot of activations during the game. Tip to knight opponents - put a BM on everything and you won't face that many assaults!
- knights are a nightmare when assaulting, or if you assault them when they have supporting fire. Potentially you could cut the shock lance and they'd still be excellent. Or make their normal attack have first fire to simulate the shock lance? At the moment I feel that each of them rolls too many dice. Of course that would make the shock lance hit on a better number than 5+ but it'd still be a slight downgrade.
- some people use paladins, but the only use I find for them is as meatshields for the baron to form a BTS I can then play conservatively. The army is better with more of the other knights, though. Making them speed 25cm would probably increase their playability loads.
- can't find a use for wardens... but having said that my ballistas were clobbered very easily by the fighta-bombas, whereas a warden would have kept an area under flak for a much longer time. There's just something off about wardens that don't justify their points cost :/
- sentinels seem okay but they take a support slot and bring an AP target to the table. It's useful to have scouts in a knight army - can't we buy them as 4 strong fms like IG does? I'd bring them if that was their cost (support slot pending)
- no comments on anything else

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I'd rather this list was unpinned and the 1.4 one was pinned as that's the one I'd like people to playtest.

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