Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 

RULES: Raveners and a second look?
2.0
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 49
I've been pondering Raveners and they just seem a bit backwards from thier 40k counterparts.  I'm thinking of a few points that could be changed, not sure how or if it would change thier points cost, but theres a few things that just don't seem to fit with them.

4+ Armour...  They only have a 5+ save in 40k, should this be changed to a 5 or 6+?

Only Scything Talons... They have Scything and Rending, should they get at least a +1 Extra attack?

Deathspitter... This is one that could be changed across the board for those that have deathspitters.  They are a pretty decent assault weapon and one that I think got toned down a bit in Epic being only a Small Arms weapon.  Couldn't it be more of a 20cm (24" range in 40k), AP5+ or AP6+?

Just a few thoughts I had, thanks and good gaming!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
Well there are like three to five of therm per stand each one needing two hits (in 40k) to kill.  Thus they will take a lot to die.  Thus 4+ save.  As for extra weapons, they are already a tad expensive for my liking you can get three termagaunts for one ravener.  Also Raveners can also take devourers, which are small arms.  So maybe the name should be changed to weapon symbiote.  Thre again 5 devourers should give +1 FF....

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
2.0
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 49
3 to 5 per stand?  what do you make your raveners out of?  I'm lucky to get two to a stand  :)  Just seems silly that Raveners have the same save as a Hive Tyrant stand (which is supposed to include the Tyrant Guard in the stats as well)...  

And maybe it is just changing the weapon name, the deathspitter is just too good to only be small arms.

So if the save was taken down a notch and an extra attack was given for the rending/scything, the points might balance out...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England
Well it looks like I can get that many on the stand.  When I can finally get 'nids at a decent price I want to try to get 7 gaunts per stand.  A real swarm effect

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
2.0
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 49
I'm still working on getting 5 troops to a stand... lol.  Swarm boxes are always at the top of my gifts list  :P
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:24 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
In my view the Hive Tyrant needs to have reinforced armour, I've talked aobut that in other threads. Also the Tyrant is immune to small arms unlike the ravener, so the ravener is not really the same toughness even now.

Also save represents toughness and wounds as well as armour, and to a certain extent probably also movement abilities in 40k. I guess it depends how many are on a stand in epic. Currently i think most people are using single raveners (I do) though 3 like warriors would be best probably.
Personally I think raveners need bit of a change to bring them in line with the new codex. In close combat they should be just as deadly as warriors in terms of dishing out the damage.

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ferrumvir
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:50 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Nottingham, England
There's another URL=http://www.epic40k.co.uk/epicomms/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=21;t=4902]thread[/URL] where I mention changing the ravenors stats, but rather than change the stats. I suggested changing the number of models per units.

At the moment Ravenors (5 to a base) equate to 10 wounds and 15-20 attacks which should make them more powerful in CC than GS. 3 Ravenors per units (model any number you like) and the pressent stat line makes more sense.

Most units represent 4-6 wounds

CF 4, TW 6, HG 5, TG 5, etc. and through most army lists.

I'm a little baffled that ZO=1 and RV=10!

Cheers Scott

_________________
Tyranids 5.40B - (w/d/l) 5/2/2
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Jaldon
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:54 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
A unit points cost is based as much on the units stats as it is on the units usefulness to the army or the formation it is part of.

Also.....

Straight line crossing of stats from WH40k to Epic-A can, and does, lead to problems. Sometimes it is more important that the proper Army Wide Feel be created over a direct crossing of said stats form WH40k to Epic-A.

For example, not all Space Marine Devastators in WH40k are armed with Missile Launchers, but they are in Epic-A, why? Because it creates a simplier, easier to use, cleaner game then trying to allow for all the possible options they do have in WH40k. Also, it really isn't that important that the individual stats be that detailed, this is a BIG PICTURE game compared to WH40k and in that case the overall effect of a weapon system is often more important then the individual effects it might, or might not, have on a unit by unit bases.

Deathspitters, Bolters, Lasguns, Shuriken Catapults, are all treated as small arms in Epic-A no matter what their WH40k stats are. They can cause a change in FF to hit, or number of FF attacks, but not become a ranged weapon.

Raveners, at various times, have been tried with +1 attacks, while it seems real correct the overall effect has always been bad, either upping the cost so much they become near useless, or making them so powerful for the cost as to be a no brainer (Thus leaving the Gaunts at home).

The desire is to create the feel of a wall of nasty little bugs that won't go away no matter how many you cut down, that are backed up by bigger meaner bugs that can be gotten rid of if you could just catch your breath long enough to accomplish it. Hence you want cheap Gaunts/Ravaners/Gargoyles so this effect is created. The need to do this in Epic-A will sometimes supercede the need to stay in line with WH40k.

Well that's my two cents anyways.....

Jaldon :p

_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Legion 4
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:07 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA
Again ... Jaldon is on target ... WH40K and Epic, regardless of the fluff ... are not created equal !  :blues:

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:48 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
Well if we leave the Raveners at one (or 1-3) to a stand (as many people seem to be using them now) then their current stats reflect comparitive 40k ability reasonably well, ie not confusing to 40k players watching or playing epic.  In addition single raveners are common in 40k... they are one of the few smaller nids which can be taken in units of one, along with lictors, thropes, and biovores.

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ferrumvir
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:50 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Nottingham, England
Hi,

I'm more than happy with the stat line, and Jalgon is correct, the points cost should reflect the usefulness in the game.

As I've said in more than one place if ZO and RV are changed to be representing 3ish models a units/base then they are IMO just about bob on! At one/five per unit they either out perform/under perform the 40k equivalent by a significant margin.

On the devastator point made by Jalogn. Early in the concept of EA (pre-realease) there was talk of having (for non-tournament games) a list of stats for Devatstors/Tactical squads etc. with different weapons options, Heavy Bolters/las cannons and the like with which you would be able to taylor/"add character" to your units should you wish. I wonder what happened to that sort of non-competetive stat changes?

Cheers Scott

_________________
Tyranids 5.40B - (w/d/l) 5/2/2
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:43 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Straight line crossing of stats from WH40k to Epic-A can, and does, lead to problems. Sometimes it is more important that the proper Army Wide Feel be created over a direct crossing of said stats form WH40k to Epic-A.


I think I've heard this song before... :D

I posted almost the exact same thing yesterday in the "infantry point cost" thread.  I suppose it's just true that great minds think alike.
:cool:

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Jaldon
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.
Quote ferrumvir
Early in the concept of EA (pre-realease) there was talk of having (for non-tournament games) a list of stats for Devatstors/Tactical squads etc. with different weapons options, Heavy Bolters/las cannons and the like with which you would be able to taylor/"add character" to your units should you wish.
End Quote

You still can, the stats for all the weapons are there, and the FAQs in the rule book even tell you can do this for non-GT battles if you and your opponent if you want to. We have used it for some of our battles for fun, it can be interesting to say the least.

Quote Neal
I posted almost the exact same thing yesterday in the "infantry point cost" thread.  I suppose it's just true that great minds think alike.
End Quote

Scarey Isn't It :wow:  :80:  :(8:  :laugh:

Jaldon :p

_________________
Brave sir Robin, when danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave sir Robin.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Legion 4
 Post subject: RULES: Raveners and a second look?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36947
Location: Ohio - USA
Does Neal have a Voodoo Doll of you too, Jaldon ?! :;): ?I really do have one my friend's girl gave me ... could explain a lot of my recent problems ! :laugh: ?But back OT ... 40k continues to screw up Epic ! :o0  :oops:  :devil:




_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net