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LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf

 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:09 pm 
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Thought I'd sneek in and get this forum started with what I think is the current army list, 5.40B.

Tyranid Army List v5.40B.pdf

Maksim hope you don't mind me linking the pdf version I just found it easier to follow all your hard work in this format.
Now to build the swarm.......

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:26 pm 
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Hi Adrian,

No problem. Chern has also provided the document in PDF at his Epic Army Card web site.

Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:38 pm 
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Thats where I got it from. :) The amount of work you guys do for the hobby is great!

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:39 am 
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I thought the latest was the v3 on the playtester vault site...

Darn, I gotta get reading! :p

Once again Maksim, awesome job - thanks!  :cool:





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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:47 pm 
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Maksim: ?

**Can you post a list of items you are considering changing in the next round of the list?**

Nothing that would hold you to it. I just want an idea of things to playtest and knowing some ideas begin considered would be useful, either for trial or to avoid using something already recognized as in need of repair.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:14 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 06 2005 July,16:47)
Maksim: ?

**Can you post a list of items you are considering changing in the next round of the list?**

Nothing that would hold you to it. I just want an idea of things to playtest and knowing some ideas begin considered would be useful, either for trial or to avoid using something already recognized as in need of repair.

Hi Neal,

The v5.45B 'Nid playtest list has been steadily incorporating a number of new changes:

- Bio-arty will be weakened.

- There are two kinds of Synapse Nodes now. Verly likely, the SNL (Synapse Node, Lesser) will be reorganized into a 1-3 formation.

- Hive Tyrants are being examined.

- The Exocrine unit will now be called the Exocrine and Dacto-exocrine.

- Several of the background descriptions for units have been both edited and revised.

- Several playtesters have had their names added to the list of contributors.

Some more changes have been planned, but I haven't been able to implement them yet:

- Tyranid tournament goals are being created.

- Several rules sections are being rewritten for better clarification.

- I'm still waiting on my copy of the new Tyranid Codex to incorporate new changes from that document. ?

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:46 am 
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I would be very interested in discussing the goals for bugs.

I have found this the hardest area to get my head around with this list.

Keep up the good work gents.

Tiny

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:58 am 
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I'm unsure about goals myself.

At the moment I have been sticking down 40k infestation markers for the bugs as objectives and it looks like you are fighting for something buggy... and it seems to work well. I would hate to fix something that is not broken.  I wonder if it is not best to leave goals and just reinterpret them - eg defend the flag is defend the egg etc...

On the other hand bug specific vicotry conditions could be quite good if done right - in epic40k bug victory conditions involved numbers of enemy eaten rather than ground taken etc.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Quote (Markconz @ 07 2005 July,09:58)
I'm unsure about goals myself.

At the moment I have been sticking down 40k infestation markers for the bugs as objectives and it looks like you are fighting for something buggy... and it seems to work well. I would hate to fix something that is not broken. ?I wonder if it is not best to leave goals and just reinterpret them - eg defend the flag is defend the egg etc...

On the other hand bug specific vicotry conditions could be quite good if done right - in epic40k bug victory conditions involved numbers of enemy eaten rather than ground taken etc.

I agree, Bugs should be more interested in acquiring DNA rather than holding pieces of land. Of course a Nid player may want to grab an objective to deny it from his opponent.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:47 pm 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 06 2005 July,12:14)
The v5.45B 'Nid playtest list has been steadily incorporating a number of new changes:

- Bio-arty will be weakened.
- There are two kinds of Synapse Nodes now. Verly likely, the SNL
? ? (Synapse Node, Lesser) will be reorganized into a 1-3 formation.
- Hive Tyrants are being examined.
- The Exocrine unit will now be called the Exocrine and Dacto-exocrine.

Greetings all -

The changes that Maksim lists all sound good.

Some observations/feedback/whines (in no particular order)...

* Reinforced Armor save of 3+ is too good. My Dom stood up to two rounds of fire
? from a full Leman Russ Co and didn't take a single wound.
? I realize this isn't a new point, but I just wanted to concur...

*Dacto-Exocrines are too good at what they do - toning them down a bit would be good. (cool name change!) :)
? Ditto, Biovores. I found the proposed AP5/AT5 Indirect,Disrupt stats to be well balanced.

* The changes in Lesser SN sounds interesting. My opponent pointed out after the game that using
? *lots* of them (say, 8 of them for a mere 240pts) could be abusive, especially when it comes
? ?to leveraging your activations.

* ?Which Synapse unitss are we supposed to use to lead Ravs or Gargs? It'd be nice to have the
? ?option for some winged Tyr-Warriors - as it is now, they can either be lead by a winged Tyrant
? ?(which can be 'snipered' by AT shots) or by Warriors that are waaaay too slow. :(

* When my Dom finially closed with the Leman Co. I made ready to shoot them up and only
? *then* realized that the *HUGE* Bio-cannon on her... isn't represented in her stats.
? Given that we're pretty unlikely to see a new model for the Dom (or so Jervis has said) could we
? look over the Dom and Hydraphant stats and give them back thier Bio-Cannon? Pretty-please??? :)

* Just one last request (promise!) :) ?Would it be possible to 'beef-up' the Hormagaunt and
? Termagants a bit? Maybe giving TGs a FF 5+ and HGs an extra Assault attack? I'm asking
? for two reasons... First, because they seemed pretty, um, lacking when they finally
? got into range, but more importantly, I'm having trouble filling the 25% Common Brood
? requirement for my army. Given how difficult Tyranid infantry is to find nowadays and how
? blasted expensive it is, I'd prefer that the Common Brood critters be 'decent' and not so dirt cheap in points.

Those quibbles aside, I was *VERY* impressed with this list!! It has a very different 'feel' to
it from other armies and was *very* fun to run!

I'm finishing the editing of my picts from the game and will post a URL soon! :)

Larry

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:16 am 
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I'm waiting for the new list before I make too many comments... but I'm in agreement with most of what you say Farseer E.

RE: Bio-titan 3+ RA save - yes I concur this is too tough. I would like to see them tried with 4+ RA and the regeneration rule ported from 40k (in end phase role D6 for each point of damage suffered - on a six the point is recovered). I also think the crits need a bit of work. There is too much book keeping involved in them at the moment.

RE: bio-arty. yes it needs some serious weakening:
5+AP/5+AT indirect disrupt for biovores (poss 30cm range).
1BP Indirect disrupt for Dactocrines (poss 45cm range).

RE: nodes - haven't playtested but Maksims ideas sounds good in theory.

RE: Raveners and gargoyles - gargoyles need a harridan ?:;):
I think toning down the harridans armament and stats a fair bit and making it slightly cheaper would be a good idea too. It is an extremely powerful flying WM at the moment, 4+RA is probably over the top for a flyer as well. I will wait till next version before going into much detail though.
I ?have some ideas for raveners to make them more interesting... but I'm waiting for the next list version for them as well.
I'm trying the list without flying tyrants/warrirors as I don't think these should be necessary.

RE:Dom cannon - I agree lets represent what the mini actually has - dorsal cannon - titan killer would be my preference. Once again I am waiting for the next version of the list before evaluating the dom in detail.

RE: Gaunts; The changes I would like to see are:
TERMIS: up to 5+ FF and 15 points (better reflects their armament and makes them worth taking, also helps reach the minimum 25% as you say, and makes them more reasonable as a spawning choice).
HORMIS: Movement down to 15cm (same for ravs), so they can garrison (very important). They move no further than termis or eldar guardians in 40k - except in the final charge move (represented by infiltrate in epic). These creatures speed ability therefore works more like a cheetah - they can make a super fast move for short distances to chase down prey (the boudning charge), but their metabolism cannot keep it up for extended periods.
GARGOYLES: Back up to 5+FF.
RAVENERS: Waiting till next version.

TYRANTS: As per the discussion on the old list, make tyrants represent the epic model (and current 40k model). Ie bonesword, lashwhip (defensive weapon) armament. Ditch the guard as they don't work well in any form tried so far (they fight but don't 'guard' at all), and probalby shouldn't be included in this subdual phase list anyhow (Jervis has given the ok to ditch them). Give RA (tyrants are too vulnerable at the moment), lose invulnerable save (RA fits better). ?The overall effect is to make the tyrant more survivable, but not so overpowered in close combat:

Hive Tyrant (HT) (100 points)
Type: Armored Vehicle
Speed: 15cm
Armour: 4+
Close Combat: 2+
Firefight: 4+

Weapon Range Firepower
Bone Sword (Base Contact) Assault weapons, Macro-weapon, Extra attacks (+1)
Venom Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT6+

Notes: Commander. Synapse Creature. Fearless. Reinforced Armour.
(May add skimmer, change to a 25cm movement, reduce AV to 5+RA for +50 points).

SPAWNING: ?For the last couple of games I have been playing that it takes two points to spawn an uncommon brood creature, as it seems unbalanced to our group otherwise. Should take more effort to pop back a carni than a few gaunts. I haven't used hierodules but I think they should either not be spawnable or spawnable at 2 points per DC.

The overall feeling among our group is that bugs are heading in the right direction, but there is still too much of an elite feel amongst many of the bigger bugs, instead of a swarm of chitin feel. We would rather tone down the bigger bugs and have more of them, instead of a few super units.

In my last game I also tried stats for Lictors and GS that were more in line with their current 40k abilities, ie one 2+ first strike for each unit instead of its current attacks, and Lictors were 150 for 3 instead of 150 for 2. On the old forum I argued that MW were overpowered for Lictors (they are stealthy predators not walking tanks), and MW should be confined to monstrous creatures (tyranids, carnis and above). Having 3 Lictors is more fun that only 2 as well ;) Plus 3 is a good bug flavoured number... (3 pairs of limbs!).

Anyway those are my thoughts... I look forward to playtesting the next list.  :)





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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:36 am 
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I like the idea of 0-3 limit for the lesser nodes to prevent abuse.

I know it would be real tempting to want to 'make' new objectives for the Nids across the board, but not only would that take a good amount of work, it would probably be real difficult to get passed JJ.

Re-defining what they represent would be no problem IMHO, as long as the intent of the orginal objective remained the same.

Jaldon:p

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:44 am 
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Quote (Jaldon @ 08 2005 July,04:36)
I like the idea of 0-3 limit for the lesser nodes to prevent abuse.

I know it would be real tempting to want to 'make' new objectives for the Nids across the board, but not only would that take a good amount of work, it would probably be real difficult to get passed JJ.

Re-defining what they represent would be no problem IMHO, as long as the intent of the orginal objective remained the same.

Jaldon:p

I agree with Jaldons sentiments.

However, if we stick with using the current tournament objectives (which may be likely given our time frame), I don't think that it is neccessary or desirable that objectives should be redefined in the actual tyranid list - rather this should be left to players imagination same as 40k.... ie when making your objective counters you give them a tyranid look.

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 Post subject: LISTS: Tyranid Army List v5.40B pdf
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:00 am 
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I was thinking of adding something to the text as fluff like 'think of the objectives as these Nid equivilants" so that players would  have some ideas just what to make to represent them.

Also putting in that these are just ideas, not a rule. Sorta like the non-GT models section, a player aid.

Jaldon:p

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