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How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG

 Post subject: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:28 am 
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I faced the death korps IG list today, got crushed. Rolled well and won initiative half the time. First turn my opponent death striked missled my dominatrix and killed it. Hitting on a 2+ and doing TK D6. I charged it second turn with teleporting lictors but they lost (lictors should be better in my opinion, bad statistical odd to win against the missle tower, lictors should be able to kill a missle tower). There goes my supreme commander and the only ranged MW in the Army. Third turn he breaks my hierodule with another death missle. He uses 2 shadowbane or something that also have long range and TK D3 hitting on like 3+ to break my trygons after I kill a 6 tank company. He has 20+ infantry in 3+ bunkers and another 20+ infantry in 4+ RA Gorgons. He has two units of FS 12 man calvary units which are the same point but better than hormagaunts. He also has a battalion of 3 supertanks for only 500 points dishing out lots of damage. He also had 3 small batteries of artillery. And every decent unit has a commisar so it gets +1 in assaults which sometimes is huge.

Pretty much no list I can think of will win against this list for tyranids. I wish there was some mid ranged anti-tank infantry but there isn't any. I was thinking about tons of hormagaunts but they really get held back by having to have tyranid warriors its difficult to surround the gorgons so they can't exit or get too many on the long ranged tanks and then you have to worry about counter charges by FS calvary or FF assaults against the infantry.

Not having shields makes the deathstrike missle so lethal against tyranids and there's really no way to get to it until it fires twice (The death missle is actually completely unfair in my opinion, you can't strategize against it). I don't see how you can win very easily without taking WEs. How are you suppose to attack the bunker of 20+ infantry without your only BP MW. Nothing else you have will soften up the enemy before you charge (dactylus can do blast markers but it doesn't reduce fire power in assaults). The 20+ infantry in the gorgans is really hard to fight against as well. The infantry all hide behind the gorgons giving them a ton of 4+ RA saves in assaults. Then they just get back into the gorgons after the assault so you can't shoot at them (Can they actually do that, get out and then get back in after the assault?). Finally, the 2 units of 12 calvary with FS are pretty lethal. You can't just move up too close, the FS and infiltrate can allow them to break most units.

Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:56 am 
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Krieg seem to be quite potent across the board but are particularly effective against CC dependant lists. Massive infantry formations with war engine upgrades backed by lots of powerful long range weapons.... Nids even aside the list doesn't have much (or really anything) in the way of fallibility.
Yes I'm pretty sure they can embark in the Gorgon using their consolidation move provided they are in range.
I agree with you Nids are usually $@%#ed when facing krieg even if you tried to tailor your list to face them. Assuming you are using the approved lists from the current compendium.

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Last edited by atension on Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:02 am 
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It shouldn't be so rock paper scissors. It's suppose to be a strategy game. Your tyranids and your against Krieg, your have no chance. Krieg army list seems way OP. They have everything and it' s all awesome and cheap for what it does. What suppose to be there weakness? they have so many options they can tailor against any list.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:45 am 
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I've played the NetEA Nids list only a few times and never the UK version. I assumed you are taking about the NetEA version. Have you tried the UK one? Are you playing the approved list or the approved playtest proposal list? Which version was your opponent playing also? Matt has made some strides to reduce the potency of the Krieg list. Not sure if it's hit the mark or not I have yet to play the new version.
I was never happy with the NetEA Nids list. It is competitive against several lists but many it just falls flat on its face.
The problem lies with partially with trying to satisfy the fluff and partially with the performance of CC vs FF specialized formations.
Nids have to be CC oriented there isn't really a way around it. They also can't have much in the way of long ranged shooting. They also can't have shields. How does the list make up for this? Well, fast moving expendable troops that respawn and auto rally. Personally I'd make the swarms a little cheaper, genestealer formations larger, licktor formations either larger or cheaper. I'd follow Borka suggestion and get rid of the auto rally (make it a +1 rather than +2. I'd like better AA options. I always envisioned Nids playing popcorn style (14-16 activations) most a resonable size. A couple go down before being able to engage. A couple more go down in the effort to win an engagement and a bunch left to push forward again. Nids should be the ultimate attrition force.
It's always very helpful if you can post battle reports so we can really see how the problems manifest and rule out luck of the dice.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:02 am 
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Yes, can you confirm which lists you are playing to. I assume NetEA, but if it is EUK then the response will be different.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:19 am 
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I am in a league and they stick to the NetEA approved lists.

The deathstrike missle is un-fun and completely destroys tyranids. You can do nothing against it. I will give the tyranids a special rule mass spore mine bombard and on a 2+ all your units on the table take a hit, cost 250 points. Who would make up and approve such a broken un-fun rule to play against. It's completely anti-gaming. It needs to be deleted, forever. There was no thought at all when they made up this that it automatically beats tyranids and they can do nothing against it. That's not a game. Next time I am just going have my opponent role a 2+ and he wins and not even play. Same effect less time.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:23 am 
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Tyranids do pretty good in our tournaments. Deathstrikes are deadly for all opponents.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:25 am 
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Every else titans have shields. So not as deadly. Not nearly as deadly.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:27 am 
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and its always going to kill your supreme commander, so no rerolls the whole game. Super brutal.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:30 am 
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and it's your only ranged MW (there is no ranged TK) and only decent AA. I don't know why all the eggs are in the same basket but that's the list.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:52 am 
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Yes, the Krieg silo is a pain and with the Dom only being DC4 it is very difficult to defend against. We added Hierodules to act as bullet catches for the Dom in the UK list and it seems to work.
The only real solution that I could suggest is trying to get the Lictors in on the first turn. However I do accept that your opponent will probably surround the silo with other forces to try and prevent you doing this.
So sorry no real solution, but some sympathy. Try and get your group to use the EUK list, as MikeT did rather well with it at the Euros.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:38 am 
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I charged it with lictors in CC, my lictors all died. The only get 1, 3+ attack in CC. He had a commisar so +1 to assault and MW in CC. I had a blast from teleporting. No blasts cause he was on the edge behind building. You lose by like 2-3 averagely to a missle silo with lictors in CC. When lictors can't kill a missle silo in CC like 90% of the time something is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:41 am 
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I had to get lucky for my opponent to not surround the death missile and then get lucky and win initative haveing a -1 just to have a chance to charge and then lose in CC against a missle tower. I don't think I will ever play lictors again.


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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:39 am 
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Again, not consolidation as you only got one hit, but the save was modified from Sniper hit.

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 Post subject: Re: How can Tyranids beat Death Korps IG
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:47 pm 
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Interesting how quickly the discussion turns to "try the EUK list," which is probably some of the least productive advice on this board. I know that the NetEA tyranid list was much more thoroughly tested than the DKoK one, and having faced both lists I can say that I share your (dreykeo's) wonderment at DKoK's lack of weaknesses. I think these are currently being addressed by Matt-Shadowlord's revisions.

More pertinent question for you, however, is how you constructed and used your 'nid army. With tunnelers, genestealers, lictors, and harridans, you have a potential combination of garrison, speed, and deep strike. Dactylis and biovores also give you a lot of disrupt indirect. Since you are almost always going to lose strategy, the trick is to give your opponent more crises than he can handle (at least 3 potential engagements on turn 2 for example). Even if he wins strategy and retains, that still leaves one or more of his important formations vulnerable. If he stays castled up, more than likely you can box him in and he has to chew through a sea of 'nids just to get on your side of the board. It's always going to be bloody for the 'nids, and don't count on the dom surviving very long if there's deathstrikes on the board.

Given the way the list is now, I don't think krieg is a balanced opponent for them.

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