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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10.1

 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:43 am 
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Just a quick thing me and my friend spotted tonight...The new list doesn't actually explain the "Expendable" rule...only knew what it did from playing with the last list.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:03 pm 
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I took it out with it being in the compendium now. I can put it and tunneler back in if needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:55 pm 
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I would recommend including them as references for now like we did for the Squat list.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:08 am 
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I played a game last night against Imperial Guard. I lost hard. I went and looked over the new list and was concerned with some changes I noticed. Was hoping Dave or someone could shed light on why some items were nerfed.

Warriors- 2 less guns? Seems like they lost a bit of punch.

Trygon- Did it just plain win? Its ability to fight and live is very reduced. I almost feel it needs a DC or something now with its lessened armor.

Zoanthropes- No Synapse? *Shrug*

No Synapse tumors? I know these were kinda lame and boring, but (?) ?

Gargoyles- Less good?

Also, when I punched the army into the Army Builder, when you create a Medium Sized Synapse unit, it allows you to split between 2 Warriors and 1 Hive Tyrant. According to the Sheet it says "1 Hive Tyrant or 2 Warriors". I would think that since its a double sized unit you could choose, but my buddy begs to differ. So can I choose to have both Warriors and a Hive Tyrant in a Medium group?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:54 am 
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What do you mean by 2 less guns on the Warriors?

I'm assuming you're comparing the 2DC RA5+ Trygons to the 3+ 2DC with invulnerable from 9.2.1? Only against regular attacks has their survivability diminished. Against MWs they got a bump. As it stands they are slightly harder to kill than a Carnifex.

Onachus is meant to be the old fluff list, before Zoanthropes were Synapses. Leviathan has them as Synapses.

Are the tumors the Synapse Nodes? Ya, Onachus dropped them. They still might make a return as a Wraithgate-esque fashion.

Gargoyles are less good at the moment. Depending on how tests go they might get a bump in stats or a decrease in points.

M size swarms can have 4 warriors, 2 warriors and a tyrant or 2 tyrants. Player's choice.

What were the IG/'nid lists like. How'd the game progress?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:10 pm 
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The Nid list was kinda shitty, and I am bad at math (I'm an Engineer by trade) so I actually was under my 3000pt cap.
I had 2 Large Units of Synapse with a Hive Tyrant, 2 Carnifex's, and 8 mixed Gaunts as my main hitters.
3 3 man units of Dactylis as support.
2 3 Man Lictor swarms.
1 Genestealer unit.
2 Units of Warriors with 8 Mixed Gaunts.

Don't add it up, its embarassing. I had 2 phones and an Ipod nearby, and a pad of paper and a pen, and it was still off, I hate myself.

My buddy TheAmazingAntman goes by the "New Guy should always get a face-pounding" teaching method. I played against his 3000pt Imperial Guard tournament army he's playing at Adepticon. It's a solid list, killed me dead.

First turn he moved up most of his tanks and infantry, he shot and luckily missed all my stuff. Failed some activations on a unit cuz he's a boss.

I moved up, shelled with my Dactylis. I managed to actually get a few Blast Markers on his Shadow Sword in the middle of board. It helped a lot.

Next turn he took initiative and sustained fire with a 14 tank unit? Either way it was massive and he rolled ok and wiped all but 1 Carnifex out of a squad. Then I charged into that unit with my second Hive Tyrant squad, and proceeded to fail miserably as his tanks cared not about giant monsters. I then charged a few other units, and teleported in my Lictors in the back field.

The next turn was a large amount of my dieing as my Lictors failed to killed a Shadowsword and a Sentinel squad. I then gave one last charge into his tanks and died pretty handily. We scooped it up after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Looking over what you said, I can see why the Trygon is only slightly harder to kill. But it lost it's invulnerable save and has 1 less attack.

Also, just straight comparing Carnifex vs Haruspex. Why would you take a Fex over a Haruspex? Is the ability of being Fearless that much better? The Haruspex has an actual shooty gun that can pair with a Hive Tyrant to shoot while advancing. Even a Malefactor is better than a Carnifex in most respects.
Is there a way to make the Fex better in combat? Give all its attacks MW? Give it 2 Extra attacks? DC? Invulnerable save? 15 less points? It just feels like there's no reason to run the Fex at the current state that it compares to a Haruspex.

Old Tyranid Warrior:

TYRANID WARRIOR
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
LV 20cm 4+ 3+ 5+
Weapons Range Firepower Notes
Venom Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT6+
Deathspitters (15cm) Small Arms
Slashing Claws (Base Contact) Assault Weapons Extra Attacks (+1)

New Tyranid Warrior:

TYRANID WARRIORS
Type Infantry
Speed 20cm
Armor 5+
Close Combat 2+
Firefight 5+
Weapons
Range 30cm
Firepower AP5+
Notes
Deathspitters
-
Notes: Fearless, Synapse

New Tyranid Warrior has no AT on its gun. (Technically the name was changed and it technically still has its Firefight capactiy. In this assumption I was wrong). It did however lose its Extra Attacks. It did gain 2+ over 3+ Close Combat, but I'd always take 2 attacks at 3+ over 1 at 2+. Also, its armor is weakened by 1 point going to a 5+ over a 4+. All these things seem less good. Maybe let them be Inspiring? Give them back an Extra Attack? Not sure really.

I will make one addition. The fact that it is INFANTRY now over a light vehicle is clutch. Whoever thought that making them LV's in last edition was huffing paint.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:02 am 
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@warlord1985: Just a few comments on army builds. When I build a Tyranid army, I try to envision purposes for all swarms. I have one infantry-heavy swarm going for terrain-heavy areas, one with Haruspex/Carnifex support that can approach in more open terrain, one swarm going for FF (Zoanthrope/Exocrine), a Dominatrix for MW BP and Supreme Commander and finally, a mobile reserve swarm (small swarm with no upgrades) that I can always put to use where it is needed.

That gives me 4-5 support options depending on what I fancy for the day. I would try to field one or two ranged support swarms (Biovores, Dactylis or Hierophant), one or two Genestealer swarms, one or two Harridans and one deep-striking formation.

Generally, I find that 10 formations is a good count for Tyranids.

This has worked for me. Keep your swarm compositions in mind when you place objectives to make the most of your unit choices.

3 Dactylis for 300 is quite expensive. I have had good use of 4 Dactylis (to get the second template) and also two added to a small swarm. Then you get a swarm for 320 points to keep in reserve which can still prepare formations with BM:s. Still, because they are so expensive, I would never field more than one formation. Look to the other support choices for cheaper ranged fire (Biovores) or consider the Hierophant titan or 6 Exocrines. I have not tried out the latter, but it looks solid on paper and should be possible to put to good use with Harridans and Lictors for crossfire purposes.

As for Carnifexes, I have not tried them out yet, but potentially their Fearless ability saves them from hack-down hits so a swarm with Carnifexes that breaks should be able to rally and re-spawn and still be in a good spot for next turn.


/Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:45 pm 
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The Trygon did loose an extra attack, but it also gained MW on one of them. The intent was to making it slightly better than the Carnifex to mirror how it performs in 40k.

Fearless is why the fex is costed at the same level of the Haruspex. With their saves and CC ability they are going to at the front of a swarm when engaging, so when a swarm looses an assault they'll be some of the first things removed due to hackdowns. Having Fearless on the fex will not only keep it around longer but help if the game goes to tiebreak (where nids ignore brood creatures for formation size).

On the Warriors, again the intent was to stat them relative to how they perform in 40k. Three of them are slightly better than 5 assault Marines, but not enough to warrant 2 CC@4+. Given that without them Swarms fall apart they're definitely worth 50 points, at least from our games. Also they're doubly important again due to how tiebreak works for the bugs.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:24 am 
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I was definitely worried that Broods not counting was going to really hold them back. I really think that the difference in Fex vs Haruspex doesn't make up for it though. If I do better in all other aspects, I shouldn't be worried about having to be fearless. More test games to come. Right now I'm trying to figure out lists to make the Dominatrix and Titans work. I wish Meitcetic Spores were a Titan additional upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:19 am 
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@Dave: I'd strongly recommend putting the "tunneler" and "expendable" rules explanation back into the list. While I know where to find the first (rulebook), I have no idea what the latter means whatsoever. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:22 pm 
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I'll be sure to add them back in. In the mean time Expendable is in the Army Compendium and v10 of the nid list.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:28 am 
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There are rumours that the Pyrovore will get new rules to make it an AA unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:53 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
There are rumours that the Pyrovore will get new rules to make it an AA unit.


???

This is the Flamethrower Bug? Does the Hellhound get AA too? There'd better be a real good justification if that happens. I can only suspend disbelief so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:54 am 
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Now it is a flamethrower bug. If the reimagining comes true it is something different.
After all core rules say that template weapons can't be used against aircrafts.

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