After 20 games and 3 months I was looking to do a small update (plus add some fluff to the rules and some pics for Mosc). Here's the change list:

Trygons

I've increased the Trygon Swarm to 225 pointsand removed of M and L options. Also, the Trygon upgrades for the swarm are now limited to 0-3.

The M swarms got to be pretty hard hitting in our games, so much so that I think they need to be capped at 6. A swarm of 6 will see a +75 point increase with this change which I think is warranted too.

Biovores and Exocrines

No changes to the S/M/L cost but I dropped the upgrades down to 25/50 points respectively to make the math easier and fit the cost structure closer. They haven't been out performing in any of our games so I'm not worried too much about this one, testing will confirm.

AA

AA on the Gargoyles has led to them rushing AC before they can disengage, which is something I'm not a fan of stylistically. I've removed their AA and gave the Zoanthrope an AA6+ shot at 30cm (like EpicUK). They both remain unchanged stat/point-wise aside from that, testing will show if they need Gargoyles need a bump in abilities or decrease in points, and Zoans a bump in points.

I also gave the Dom a 45cm AA5+, MW (akin to the Wyrd Boy Fist o Gork) just to try out.

I'm leaning more towards dropping the Meitoic Spores now from Onachus. Anyone object there?

Genestealers

I've made the Broodlord part of the core units and upped the cost to 175 for 6. This is just something I want to try out.

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Tyranids v10.1

Looking over the list i think that the list could me made easier to use by adopting 25 point margins.

Would anyone honestly take any of the 60 point upgrades?
Would there be any change in style and power in making 60 point upgrades 50 points?
Pricing 35 point items to 2 for 50 (?) or 3 for 75 and princig up the 20 point items to 25 i feel would be viable.

It just seems so micro-managed. Making a list should be easy and inviting, not a math test.

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Agreed.

Given the list's history with "difficult design" these odd-point costs just carry that on to some extent.

Oh no, after taking a 60 point upgrade I only have 40pts! Whatever shall I do? Oh wait, I can purchase two gaunts of my choice for 40pts, and now it's a nice round 100points again! Hardly a math test.

By my count there's three units with "odd" points values: ravenors, dactylis, and trygons; not very overwhelming IMO. I can't speak to ravenors' 35pts because I haven't faced or used them, but do large AV's or small WE's warrant a points drop to 50? I think there'd be a lot of howling if they were only 50pts a piece.

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Welcome to the suck, shipmate.

With non-25 points increments in 3 Ork lists, 2 Eldar lists and the Minvervans, BL, LatD and Necrons I don't think we're breaking new ground here. Adam's force selector is more than capable of doing the math for people if they feel they need it when adding the 20/35/60 upgrades.

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Tyranids v10.1

As an interested 'bystander', either have many 'odd' point breaks or none; what makes a list unpalatable is having just one or two. A classic case is Falcon upgrades in the Eldar list; the only 'odd' pointed unit that makes it hard to include sensibly.

And Dave is spot on with respect to the list calculator (or using your own version); that should not be a consideration give the amount of technology available.

It's not about that, it is about keeping it simple.

Just because everyone in a group decides to do something, it does not make it right or lend weight to that view. All itr means is that you use it to micro manage the list.


A great item to use however not really seen or known outside of taccom or EpicUK, and thank goodness that is not the only player base out there...

Beside all the unwarranted sarcasm that seems to come back with anything I post, I am just trying to help. The point system alone would sway me to play another list if I had a choice to play a game 'off the cuff'.

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It would have been nice for you to discuss the changes that affect my list with me first.

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Perhaps you weren't replying to PMs?

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I beg to differ

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Uti Possidetis
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I think the changes are all sensible, except for Broodlords.

Given that Broodlords are a modelling project, making them mandatory might affect lots of Tyranid players. I have built two, but I would rather see it as a +25 points upgrade.

/Fredmans

The AA changes are a bit thoughtless, as I don't think they work that well with Leviathan (Gargoyles are common across both lists, Zoanthropes aren't).

Is there a modern beast that can be AA that is appropriate for Leviathan but not for Onachus?

Fredmans, play it as a +25 upgrade if you like.

Ulrik, the spores maybe?

Frogbear, I'm not trying to be sarcastic I just don't see how the inclusion of those three upgrades makes a player have to micro-manage the list. They're optional, people don't have to use them. If they stick to the core formations everything is in increments of 25 points. How is it different than 10pt Rhino upgrades or 20pt lesser daemons?

On Armyforge, even it it's audience is solely comprised of members of this forum and the EpicUK (which I doubt) I don't think this army list has a much further reach. It's hosted on this forum, it follows that people using it are going to be aware of Armyforge.

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Tyranids v10.1

Many of the australian scene do not access taccom yet these lists are made available to them. They would not know much other than what a to gives them and even then, they want it printed out. An online generator is normally (unjustified probably) untrusted due to possible errors, a lack of official gw stamping, and a lack of knowledge of its background.

My view is that many people (including myself) trust our own calculations unless we have tested something thouroughly.

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I also have a problem with these so bad example. 25 points for 2 rhino and 25 points for daemons and/or 5 for 100 points are simple fixes.

Too often we refer back to lists from the JJ era that could really be looked at to simplify...

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