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Drop Rule: Alternate Idea

 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:09 pm 
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tourney rules are designed on not knowing your opponent

Allowing any army with a spacecraft to place multiple enemy formations (in the open) under pre-plotted bombardment zones is a valid concern.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Apart from Marines everyone else has to dice to get their spaceship to play so a risk both ways surely?


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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:11 pm 
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E&C, you are correct. It is a concern. You already know this is off the cuff so yours is a worthy note, just not a major one IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:12 pm 
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I'm more worried about placing formations in early strike distance, but the bonus points could cover that - when your opponent points at a spot near his dangerous formation you plop down a cheap sacrificial formation - probably a "spawning pool" of warriors and gaunts :)


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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:15 pm 
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Mephiston wrote:
Apart from Marines everyone else has to dice to get their spaceship to play so a risk both ways surely?

I know I'd burn my re-roll to get my Init 2+ spaceship to come on if I was going to hit 2 Tyranid formations with a bucket of 4+/5+ MW attacks (ones that pick out individual unit types like Synapse creatures, no less).

Heck I'd burn an Ork's 3+ re-roll (not that anyone other than Rug ever uses Ork Spacecraft).

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:17 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Wow, out of five posts in less than five minute there is virtually no discussion the proposed rule I made.

The Nid opponent could use it to shred a portion of the Nid army. Turn 1 drop, right in front of the opponent's line. Shoot the ichor/mucus out of the Nids. Any Nid volume above what the opponent thought they could chew apart could be directed far away from the line.

If the opponent had garrison formations to sandwich the Nid drops, crossfire would be virtually automatic. Place the Nid formation between the garrison and the deployment zone, then place a formation in the deployment zone in crossfire position.

As a Nid player, I'd be very hesitant to ever try it.

As far as balance, I think there's a lot of metagame. The level of disadvantage would vary widely based on the opposing army's composition. An IG force with garrisons could meatgrinder a huge Nid force, while a Marine air assault army would not gain nearly as much. It would be very difficult to find an appropriate level of discount.


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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Then mandate the 'drop' points be on your half of the board. Or a minimum of 30cm away from garrisons. This is an embryonic idea, not one with values fleshed out.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Then mandate the 'drop' points be on your half of the board. Or a minimum of 30cm away from garrisons. This is an embryonic idea, not one with values fleshed out.

I don't think it's a matter of what the specific restrictions are. There are only going to be 2 placement strategies - as far away as possible, or where they can be blown to smithereens. That means the placement is going to effectively be determined by the hard placement restrictions alone.

If you can create a set of restrictions that would make it a strategically interesting choice, that may be workable. I can't think of how you would do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:10 pm 
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I just don't see the need for yet another complicated special rule in a list already overstuffed with special rules, when there are alternatives that use the core rules.

As for the idea itself, I don't like anything that gives the opponent control over where my units go.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:37 pm 
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That's fine if you don't like it, but there isn't a core rule that captures a random drop of Tyranids. I can appreciate the desire to have no extra rules, although I don't think there is anything complicated about this suggestion. You'd be hard pressed to make a standard planetfall work faster than my proposal.

There is nothing slow about, "Hey, put your guys here." Pick up your guys, and place. Yeah, some extra time is going to go into it, but not much.

Compare that to a planetfall which is one of the slowest mechanics in the entire game of Epic.
Compare it to the action of Necron player (or Elysian player) humming and hawing about where to place his mass of teleporting units.

This doesn't mean I think teleporting or planetfalling are bad. It just means speed and complication are not good arguments against my proposal.

I'll see if I can try it out in a month or so and post pictures to illustrate it. Anyone with a Tyranid army can also try it out without even playing a game. It would take all of 10-15 minutes to see how it would work for you.

Get ready to play a regular game with Nids. Try my set-up. Take some pictures. Get some feedback from your opponent. Jot down your own notes afterwards. Post them online. You don't even have to play!

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:53 pm 
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Mosc: I didn't say anything about speed, I said the rule is too complicated to be put into a list that already has arguably too many special rules.

As well as being against any new mechanic for reasons of list brevity, I also really dislike this mechanic as it gives the opponent the choice over where my models go. I don't think that is a good mechanic, and I don't think it represents a random fall of mycetic spores, as they'll never end up arriving in a good place, which they should do sometimes.

Planetfall with a larger scatter scatter is more representative, as they may or may not end up in favourable locations, requires far less rules space as it uses existing mechanics, and doesn't break with Epic convention by allowing the opponent to place your models.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm 
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there isn't a core rule that captures a random drop of Tyranids.

Ah, but Tyranid spore drops are not random.

They are living creatures, directed to specific locations by the hive mind, which remain alive and dangerous (firing medium calibre bio guns) even after they have landed.

They don't just splat into the ground and crack open like an egg, they are mini "spacecraft Tyranids" that "intelligently" land.

In games of 40k, this equates to landing with the same fidelity of accuracy and choice as a Space Marine Drop Pod or similar "deep strike" methods.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:34 pm 
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They don't just splat into the ground and crack open like an egg, they are mini "spacecraft Tyranids" that "intelligently" land.


I'd like a fluff reference on that.*

*This isn't me saying I don't believe you. I do want that info because the more fluff we hammer out on the Tyranids, the better we'll be able to capture their actions in the rules and in any possible up-n-coming fan fiction. O0

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Quote:
They don't just splat into the ground and crack open like an egg, they are mini "spacecraft Tyranids" that "intelligently" land.


I'd like a fluff reference on that.*

*This isn't me saying I don't believe you. I do want that info because the more fluff we hammer out on the Tyranids, the better we'll be able to capture their actions in the rules and in any possible up-n-coming fan fiction. O0

The current edition Tyranid codex notes that drop spores have been known to home in on Lictor-laid scent trails, amongst other things, IIRC. It's well worth reading.

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 Post subject: Re: Drop Rule: Alternate Idea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Basically there's several paragraphs of fluff that go on about how the drop spores are living creatures that steer their way to their destination voluntarily.

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