Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

Genestealer Cult List v1.0

 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:00 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
Half baked thought; Cult Flak Trucks, civilian vehicles with half a Hydra turret on top, so 45cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+

Could mean I could lose the hydra, or have it in addition.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6396
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA
Steve54 wrote:
I'm pretty sure in Warriors of Ultramar Lictors turn up before the hivefleet. One near the beginning 'drops' into a field and kills some farmers and pre-the hivefleet reaching the main planet evacuations from farming communities are harrassed by Lictors


I went and grabbed my Ultramarines Omnibus and this was definitely true. Long before any Tyranid ships were on the horizon, the Lictor is bouncing around munching on hapless civilians. No opinion on the list impact, just confirming the fluff.

_________________
Current Fan-made Epic Supplements
[url=http://www.tacticalwargames.net/resources/raiders2.zip]Epic: Raiders 2.0

Epic: Siege
Making your own Epic Supplement
Syncing Forward


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
How about this then, from the BFG 'nid list:

Vanguard Droneships
These fast scouts are the only type of Tyranid bio-ship that have ever been observed operating independently of a hive fleet. These creatures quickly develop their psychic connection to the Hive Mind, allowing them to be sent far ahead of the hive ship and other synapse vessels, but this comes at a price. They mature quickly and remain slight, flimsy creatures in comparison to their much slower growing (and longer lived) brethren. Vanguard drone ships possess great speed and agility, but are only lightly armed. They appear primarily to act as scouts and travel light years ahead of a swarm to locate and seed suitable prospective planets for assimilation. They may well also act to illuminate enemy vessels for attack by later contingents of the invading swarm.

Vanguard drone ships range far ahead of the main fleets at times, seeking suitable worlds for the hive ships to feast upon. They carry specific Tyranid infiltration organisms, such as Genestealers, Lictors, Hormagaunts and Leapers which they seed onto likely worlds with spores from low orbit. Vanguard drone ships in close proximity to the hive fleets are those which have either recently returned with such scouting information, or are about to depart with their cargo of woe for more worlds. The threat posed by these organisms to countless planets is such that they are often priority targets in raids against the hive fleets.


Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
i am pretty damn sure that lictors dont have their own tiny little spaceships that roam about ahead of the fleet, landing on planets to clear the path for the invasion.


See above.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:56 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:08 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
zombocom wrote:
frogbear wrote:
I think this is a good move. It should almost guarantee that the Magus is taken in every force. In doing so however, please reduce the Patriarch's points. I would even expect that 50 points is acceptable for that model now.


I'd expect the Magus and Patriarch will swap points costs.

frogbear wrote:
When the list (v0.5) comes out, then let's see if we can break it :)


I'm in the process of writing the unit fluff text for the Cult for Epic: Hive at the moment, so it should be out in a few days.


Any update on v0.5? This is looking like a really fun list already.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Looking to give this a run tomorrow with any luck

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:53 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
One thing I find most annoying about this list is the absence of unit stats.

If I had not already agreed to play it, it would be one thing that put me off. Having to go to another source to look up stats is annoying.

It is very much a case of; if the designer cannot be bothered, then why should I.

Please take that as feedback

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
After making a list to play and looking for something more, I would really like to see teleporting Genestealer units (even if they were restricted similar to Lictors).

The pricing of these would alleviate any concerns regarding balance IMO.

It would really help to bring forth the Alien/Starship Troopers feature of these beasties coming up through the sewers and such.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Played a game today vs Imperial Fists. Here are some of my thoughts:

----------------------------------------
What I liked
- The INF units taken with upgrades were suitably beefy. This really helped when the BM started stacking up
- Inner Circle is very Iconic (especially with Extended Family and Patriarch). I would even go as far as to limit the Patriarch to the Inner Circle only.
- 3x Inspiring characters seemed suitable and really assisted to keep this army alive in the very few battles I was able to get into
- Acolytes. I forgot to use them. I wish I had remembered as they give a nice 'punch' in combat at a base formation purchase
- Cult Civi vehicles. Loved them.
- The Cult is all about the Leaders, and I think this list portrays that well


What Concerned me
Inability to get a mass of units into combat without the enemy coming to me. In effect it was playing out like a shooting gallery with most things being easily broken after setting up for a charge. Without a lucky turn of events in winning the initiative (roll of a 6 against a roll of a 2), the game would have been over 2nd turn.


What I would like to see
- IMO the list needs teleporting Genestealers: I am not talking about a 0-1 restriction either.

Based on the low initiative, and to represent the locals turning on the opponents as well as the ambush, the Genestealer cult player really needs to have ~3 teleporters come on to have a chance of at least one combat in the initial stages of the game. If not, you may as well suit the list out with Core Formations and Leman Russ' because nothing else (other than Lictors and shabby PDF Fighters) is really going to make that big an impact. I would rather not see the list go down that path, and I think a +50 points to teleport a formation of 6 Genestealers is the way to go. I would rather go down this path before considering other big 'invented' Critters etc to add to the list.


- I see no reason why the list could not have a (restricted 0-1 if required) Baneblade and/or Shadowsword to add to the infiltrated/captured items. It would be simpler to add these type of items that to look for mutant beasts. Unsure if I would initially take it, however it would be a nice choice to consider.

- Purestrain Broods being able to take 2 upgrades (Broodlord + Purestrains). I made the mistake of applying 2 upgrades to the Support formation however it seemed right to boost the units to try and get across a table. Having 6 Genestealers alone running across a table has never shown to be effective in any game that I have played with nids against a capable opponent. Yes you can do this now (with Purestrains upgrade), yet without the Broodlord and the ability to reduce BM + Inspiring; well what's the point if the unit will not make it there? Three dead and the unit is broken. More Genestealers is a good thing for a Genestealer Cult force I would think - otherwise it may as well be an Imperial Guard force with a few funky troops in the Inner Circle.

- I do not see the point of restricting Core formations to 3 upgrades. While unlikely to take any more than that for any force I take, I cannot work out why this rule is in there. Is there some mega combo at 4 upgrades that made 3 an acceptable choice?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please take all the above as genuine feedback. I really do like the list. I feel that while work has been done to make the list feel like a Gene Cult list, not enough attention has been given to the thought of how this list will be competitive in a tournament situation. With the emphasis on assault (am I wrong here?) there appears to be little in the way of insertion principles to get units into assault situations.

There was a point in the game (end 1st turn) where I was worried that it would not get half way through to Turn 2 as my options were limited. I think some of my points above would really add to the competitive nature of the list.

Cheers.....

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
One late question: Can you upgrade an upgrade?

Example: I buy some extra hybrids for a formation and then upgrade one of them with a Magus. Any issue with that?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
Firstly, thanks a lot for playing with the list. I've barely had a chance to play with it myself, so all playtest info is vital!

frogbear wrote:
What I liked
- Inner Circle is very Iconic (especially with Extended Family and Patriarch). I would even go as far as to limit the Patriarch to the Inner Circle only.


Definitely happening in the next version.

frogbear wrote:
Inability to get a mass of units into combat without the enemy coming to me. In effect it was playing out like a shooting gallery with most things being easily broken after setting up for a charge. Without a lucky turn of events in winning the initiative (roll of a 6 against a roll of a 2), the game would have been over 2nd turn.


To an extent, this is unavoidable. GS Cult armies are never going to be that big on ranged firepower, and have to swamp with numbers. It's always going to be a horde approach.


frogbear wrote:
- IMO the list needs teleporting Genestealers: I am not talking about a 0-1 restriction either.


Yep, it'll be available as an upgrade in the next version.

frogbear wrote:
- I see no reason why the list could not have a (restricted 0-1 if required) Baneblade and/or Shadowsword to add to the infiltrated/captured items. It would be simpler to add these type of items that to look for mutant beasts. Unsure if I would initially take it, however it would be a nice choice to consider.


The only thing that stopped me putting Imperial Superheavies in was the desire to avoid the army being "guard + genestealers". Ideally I'd like to find a better alternative than just putting baneblades in, but I agree it's an option if I can't come up with something better.

frogbear wrote:
- Purestrain Broods being able to take 2 upgrades (Broodlord + Purestrains).


Awkward to do from a list design standpoint; I could make Purestrains a core formation (1 per brood brothers formation)?

frogbear wrote:
- I do not see the point of restricting Core formations to 3 upgrades. While unlikely to take any more than that for any force I take, I cannot work out why this rule is in there. Is there some mega combo at 4 upgrades that made 3 an acceptable choice?


It's just a carry over from Imperial Guard. I can happily drop the limit, though it does make funky ork-like mega-formations a possibility, and the list becomes harder to balance.

frogbear wrote:
I feel that while work has been done to make the list feel like a Gene Cult list, not enough attention has been given to the thought of how this list will be competitive in a tournament situation. With the emphasis on assault (am I wrong here?) there appears to be little in the way of insertion principles to get units into assault situations.


Agreed, my primary aim has been to get the feel right, and to ensure the list isn't initially broken-overpowered. Any suggestions will be taken on board.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:44 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
frogbear wrote:
One thing I find most annoying about this list is the absence of unit stats.

If I had not already agreed to play it, it would be one thing that put me off. Having to go to another source to look up stats is annoying.

It is very much a case of; if the designer cannot be bothered, then why should I.

Please take that as feedback


Yup. I have a version fully done with all unit stats etc, which I'll be updating tonight and hopefully releasing tonight or tommorow.

It'll give a first guide to how the list will look in the supplement too :o

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:46 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
frogbear wrote:
One late question: Can you upgrade an upgrade?

Example: I buy some extra hybrids for a formation and then upgrade one of them with a Magus. Any issue with that?


Per the standard Epic rules, you can add characters to upgrade units; much like a space marine player making a Chaplain Dreadnaught, you can have a Magus with your upgraded Hybrids.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Mr Z

I belive i have secured a game for next week to give the army another run through.

Any chance on whipping something up for me to use in line with the next version?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:10 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
zombocom wrote:
frogbear wrote:
- Purestrain Broods being able to take 2 upgrades (Broodlord + Purestrains).
Awkward to do from a list design standpoint; I could make Purestrains a core formation (1 per brood brothers formation)?

1. There is always the option of 2 upgrades for support... this is the cleanest solution

2. Another option is to take the Broodlord Upgrade out altogether and add it into the description line of the Purestrains - Upgrade one stand to include a Broodlord +50 points

Personally I do not see a problem with the first option above seeing an upgrade can only be taken once. If people want to mix it up and expand the formations all the better. It will not be orky, it will be more like an unorderly Imperial Guard.

As an example (and probably a bad one at that), I see no issue with a Tank Platoon with Hybrids and Purestrains. People may think that it does not work, but I think that is a pretty good defence against an opponent trying to claim a Blitz and T&H. It certainly is not Imperial Guard, nor is it Orkish. 600 points is a worry though not something that I would necessarily discourage.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:37 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:04 pm
Posts: 2589
Been following this read and wonder where it all went? Is there an updated cult list somewhere? I probably haven't looked long enough...

*never mind me! I just realized that this here is probably the experimental list in the 2012 compendium :whistle

_________________
My not so fast orky project log
Nitpicks KnapsackNurgle cult, Terrain, and the nostalgia of Crimson Fists


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net