It already is a cheap horde, I just don't want it to be a useless cheap horde. ML are not just a marine weapon; guard autocannons are identical. My guys only have one on every other base, like guard, and have lower FF.

They're weaker at range than guard, due to not getting the extra commander autocannon and having lower FF.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

they are actually in the 2012 compendium under
STIGMATUS COVENANT CULTIST CHAOS ARMY
SPACE WOLVES SPACE MARINE ARMY
ALPHA LEGION UPRISING CHAOS ARMY
DAEMON WORLD CHAOS ARMY
KHORNE RENEGADES CHAOS ARMY

sorry for the caps, I just cut and pasted from the list

Agreed



Very true, i missed the 1 on every 2 bases notation

DL that list now, has it been renamed for the 2012 Compendium or not submitted?

You'll find it in Epic: Siege.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

A few new ideas for the next version:

Change Civilian Vehicles to 2 for 25 points as it's the only non-25 step in the list.
A formation of just Civilian Vehicles, say 6 for 125 points.
Cult Bikers, something like 30cm speed, Armour 6+, CC4+, FF6+, no weapons.
Genestealer Ark: War engine, basically a tougher, slower Patriarch.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

25 point margins are something that pleases me

I like all these ideas actually.

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the space wolves and khorne renegades don't have them, the others do as a standard transport for cultists. Given that two of the three are being looked at (and the land transporter is one of the things that might change) and the Alpha legion uprising is still experimental, not much of an issue.

EDIT: also look at the Insurgency! list for Armoured technicals, a third variant.

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A few other ideas:

Patriarch loses Supreme Commander, Magus gains it - At the moment I struggle to see reasons to take the Magus, and the more I read, the more it seems like it's the Magus who's the strategic commander, with the Patriarch as more of a revered figurehead. As a result, I think the Magus should be the Supreme Commander, while the Patriarch retains his "+1 to rally for everyone while he's alive/BM for everyone if he dies" rule.

Teleporting Genestealers (and possibly other formation types)

Allowing Garrisoning for any formation with at least 50% infantry.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

hey Maddoc, I was talking about the 'Heavy Weapons' as a weapon type not the transport vehicles



sounds good, this is already distracting me from painting my marines, too much thinking of what models to use and how to paint them

For gameplay this might make more sense. It runs contrary to the original fluff, but is definitely in line with more recent work.

Per the original work done by Murphy, Ansell, & Stillman, the Patriarch is the Commander and gains knowledge of the host race through infected thralls. He constantly directs the actions of the Magus (the senior 4th gen hybrid) through brood telepathy. Chambers supported this view when Tyranids were introduced, but it was changed in 40K 2nd ed. so that either Patriarch or Magus could be the Commander and the Magus was basically directing The Cult's operations.
Hucklebery really elevated the role of the Magus and put most of the weight of The Cult's survival on his shoulders.

Some other bits that may be crafted to serve a purpose in Epic are the Cult Icon Bearers, Cult Roughriders, & Cult Relic. Given the psychic power of the Patriarch/Magus, maybe some sort of arcane psychic weapon would even fit in.

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I think this is a good move. It should almost guarantee that the Magus is taken in every force. In doing so however, please reduce the Patriarch's points. I would even expect that 50 points is acceptable for that model now.



I believe all the above would be ok (I do worry about other units teleporting however).

When the list (v0.5) comes out, then let's see if we can break it

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There's plenty of real world background for a cult-like modern army to use missile launchers. Basically every guerilla army or rebellion since WWII has used the trusty RPG.

I also hate the "heavy weapons" on the Land Transporter, fwiw.

Yeah, the Magus has increased in importance as time has gone one, especially as a battlefield leader, whereas the Patriarch has moved to more of a symbolic rather than direct leadership role.

Doing it this way also neatly makes the death of either the Magus or Patriarch a big deal to the army, as it should be. Currently, losing the Magus makes little difference.



I considered Rough Riders, but they'd be almost identical to Genestealers in stats, so didn't seem worthwhile, whereas I think Bikers can have a different role.

Not sure what those others would actually do in game.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I'd expect the Magus and Patriarch will swap points costs.



I'm in the process of writing the unit fluff text for the Cult for Epic: Hive at the moment, so it should be out in a few days.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread