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Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point

 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Marine drop games Are also very fast games.

Not a good objection.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Surely something that speeds up the game for 'nids is a good thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:48 pm 
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I've played against Tyranids using the Planetary Assault rule a few times and I like it a lot more than a Phase III list using Planetfall. Tyranids with Planetfall is, in my opinion, too much of an advantage for the Tyranid player. Playing against a Phase III list isn't fun and I would never play against Phase III Tyranids again.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:54 pm 
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The problem with the phase 3 list is that it wasn't costed right. If it costs a lot to planetfall, the nid player won't be able to afford to drop much, balancing it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:45 pm 
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A Tyranid spaceship bestowe Augmented Swarming to all formations on board during the turn it has activated to represent dropping Mycetic Spores.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:51 pm 
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I disagree on a thematic level. There is nothing tactical about Tyranid drops and as such anything related to the Tyranid player choosing where to land (planetfall, teleport, whatever) makes no sense at all. The more random, the better. Tyranids are there to digest a planet, not fight with your forces. Your army is a speedbump for them - a bit of food that they have difficulty digesting.

I'm not saying that Dave's mechanic is the end-all-be-all; I'm only suggesting that the thought process behind it is better than a more deliberate planetfall action. IMO the drop process for the Tyranids could be as much a liability as it could be a benefit. If you cannot capture that feel to the planetary assault, it is better not to include it at all (no relegate it to special scenarios).

A last thought is Phase III hive ships shouldn't be able to be bumped. There is nothing in any fiction to indicate that something like that could ever happen. So, independent of these special rules, Hive Ships should be assumed to arrive on any turn they wish.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:07 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
If you cannot capture that feel to the planetary assault, it is better not to include it at all (no relegate it to special scenarios).


Are you saying it shouldn't be a special scenario? I think it's perfect for a scenario.

The problem with accuratly trying to portray a Tyranid army is that it thinks on a scale so much bigger than a little Epic battle. Doubly so when talking about initial landings - the hive fleet fires a shotgun blast of Nids at a planet and waits to see what happens. Make the Nids too animalistic, too random, and you end up with something that's even more one-sided than Space Hulk, when it comes to who makes the decisions.

I happen to think that the game part of Epic is pretty important. I can enjoy a random scenario at times too, but in a tournament?


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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Mosc: Planetfall with a bigger scatter would work without need for such an extensive special rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Quote:
The more random, the better.

The more random, the more like a children's game.

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A last thought is Phase III hive ships shouldn't be able to be bumped. There is nothing in any fiction to indicate that something like that could ever happen.

The battle for Macgragge, combined Imperial Navy & Ultramarines fleet intercepts incoming Tyranid fleet.
Elements of the fleet are delayed & destroyed, saving the planet.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Quote:
If you cannot capture that feel to the planetary assault, it is better not to include it at all (no relegate it to special scenarios).


Sorry, this should have read "(OR relegate it to special scenarios)".

@Zombocom - Maybe. It would depend on how big the scatter was. :)
@E&C - IIRC that example delayed the Tyranid fleet's arrival, but once it arrived they were on their own. In fact the Imperial fleet couldn't even dent the Tyranids. Not one example in the fluff has the Tyranids on the ground already, and an Imperial fleet disrupting the Nid operations once they've started. As for randomness, it is hard to complain about it in a game ruled by dice.

Maybe the idea above where the Hive Ship's presence provides some additional bonus is a better way to run it. I am not sure. To iterate though, I am not all that keen on Dave's system for tournament rules. I just like it a heck of a lot better than the planetfall and teleport ideas.

My original thought on it was some sort of table (like a chart, not an actual table) that could be rolled on that placed the existing formations from the beginning. But even that seemed like a C- idea the more I considered it. For reference, back in the old days they put paper slips in a hat and dumped the hat from about three feet up in the middle of the table; wherever they landed that is where the formation set up. Just some historical reference to make everyone smile.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:45 pm 
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No Moscow you're wrong, the space battle was concurrent and saved the planet.

A similar example is the arrival of yuriel's fleet during the tyranid attack on a craftworld, again saving the day

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:53 pm 
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UGGGGGHHHH.... I am conflating that battle with of the Battle of Ultramar.

Disregard earlier brainfart.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
For reference, back in the old days they put paper slips in a hat and dumped the hat from about three feet up in the middle of the table; wherever they landed that is where the formation set up. Just some historical reference to make everyone smile.


Wasn't that mechanic in e40k as well? I seem to remember doing it a couple of times, and e40k was my first epic game.

A bit more control though - you only used one blue range ruler, so 45cm 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
Moscovian wrote:
For reference, back in the old days they put paper slips in a hat and dumped the hat from about three feet up in the middle of the table; wherever they landed that is where the formation set up. Just some historical reference to make everyone smile.


Wasn't that mechanic in e40k as well? I seem to remember doing it a couple of times, and e40k was my first epic game.

A bit more control though - you only used one blue range ruler, so 45cm 8)

Yes, but you dropped the chits where you wanted them to land. It was in no way random - it just scattered more if you were unlucky.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:32 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
Ulrik wrote:
Yes, but you dropped the chits where you wanted them to land. It was in no way random - it just scattered more if you were unlucky.


And as I remember it, each player developed personal dropping techniques to minimize scatter.

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