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List comparison

 Post subject: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:51 am 
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I was comparing a Nid base formation versus a Marine Tactical formation and here's what I found when looking at the two Nid lists....

For 275 points you can buy:

Onachus: 2 Warriors, 6 Gaunts + either 2 more Gaunts and 1 Ravener OR 1 Warrior and a Biovore/Zoanthrope/Gargoyle. Also there's a couple of other options but they all pan out to roughly 10-11 units

Leviathan: 2 Warriors, 8 Gants and 4 Horms. 14 units.

How much of an issue is it if the same cost provides one list a better output than the other?


Last edited by Dobbsy on Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List comparisons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:01 am 
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I have not looked, but if the special rules are the same, then you may have well found a disparity.

If however one of those lists did not have spawning, then the disparity would be represented by this.

Like I stated, I have not looked as yet but that is my initial view.

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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:29 am 
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As far as I know, they use the same swarming rule.

On separate but slightly related topic of mild interest to some(me mainly :D )...

Now, I'm hoping my maths are correct (someone correct me) but... a Tactical formation in defense versus the above Leviathan formation in an assault that's properly prepared (Tacs have BMs, Nids don't etc) will see the Tacticals lose 66.66% of the time as the result is most likely a +3 result to the Nids (i.e minimum Nids result is a 4 and Marines max is 5 or 6(from the die roll alone) so have 2 chances in 6 to win.

On the attack, the Tacticals will win/lose 50% of the time due to only having a +2 result.


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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:01 am 
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Tacticals have a 45cm shot + Rhinos, ATSKNF, and air support. That is significant.

It does not work unless you compare apples with at least another similar fruit ;)

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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:54 am 
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Yeah no I wasn't comparing just making an observation :)


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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:48 am 
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I think that method of estimating assault outcomes will get a result in the right ball park but could easily be out by +/-10%.

(See this thread for an experiment on estimating assault outcomes.)
(You can use this calculator to play around with various scenarios.)


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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:30 pm 
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On the topic of list comparison: There's also a big difference between the carnifexes. In Leviathan you get them for 33-41 points but in tyranids v.10 they cost 50p. I guess playtest will see which pricing is more accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:36 pm 
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The disparity in the original suggestion is partly due to the hormagaunt downgrade to 1xcc4+, which I feel makes them worth less than termagants, so I've dropped their price. Dave hasn't.

There will be price discrepancies between the two lists since they use wildly different construction systems.

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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:26 pm 
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These discrepancies where also there before the unification. The stats in Leviathan now are on the whole weaker than what was in the previous version. I'm assuming Zombo was reasonably happy with the previous stats to points cost so any reductions in cost to represent weaker stats will enhance the disparity. How it all pans out is all part of the fun.


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 Post subject: Re: List comparison
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:20 pm 
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Yup, we'll see how it all shakes out in the mix. Both Dave and I are largely totally guessing points costs at this stage.

The two different list construction methods are a bit of an experiment too; if one ends up working a lot better than the other we can move to using it in both lists.

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