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[Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning

 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:54 pm 
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As some background...

Prior to 9.2 spawning was only in the end phase. Spawning on a regroup was added to give them a bump. Being an assault army with little shooting a hold action was particularly painful, hence why spawning was allowed with a regroup.

I'll also add that Neal was less concerned about my second point given how much spawning has been reduced since before 8.4. If we were to go even further and only allowing spawing to gaunts, gargoyles and raveners (or some subset even of that) I think he would have even less cause for concern.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
Ok. Lets use a marshal action/regroup. Rolled pips gives a formation that number of spawning points. No automatic spawning at the end of a turn.
zombocom wrote:
So similar to Necrons? i.e. choose to bring models back instead of losing BMs?


I like it! It's quite simple and is also an already used mechanic in other armies (shileds and necrons) so probably wouldn't meet with to much resentment from opponents. I do think however, if applied, that a formation should be able to go above it's starting number to differentiate the nids a bit from necrons. The automatic extra unit each turn could perhaps increase if containing a "brood mother" (if that rule stays) or one can use the "leader" abillity.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Dave wrote:
As some background...

Prior to 9.2 spawning was only in the end phase. Spawning on a regroup was added to give them a bump. Being an assault army with little shooting a hold action was particularly painful, hence why spawning was allowed with a regroup.

Depends on how far back you go ;)

If all units that are spawnable don't count towards the unit size when assessing if the formation is under half strength then I have no problems with formation reaching whatever size it does.

EUK did use something similar for a period. Some used it, some found that they never did. It more depended on the style of the player more than anything.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:27 pm 
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One problem I found playing against Zombo and his spawning queue (2 games) was that it's really important to determine which is the 1st fm to spawn. Whatever option is decided, that fm will likely end the game very bloated compared to the other ones. Is it the one closest to the friendly table edge? The one w/ more total synapse units/DC-equivalents? This needs careful thought so as not to unbalance. The way we played it one time which was just going left to right was a bit messy because the left flank after a while was really fat and the right was bare. Also, it was hard to tell which fm was furthest to the left since nids by their nature bunch up a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:33 pm 
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If the spawning queue is adopted I really think it should be done by prenumbering (ie decide before the game). It can be gamed, sure, but what methods can't be? The only thing I can think of is to decide randomly each end phase which formation gets units first.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:37 pm 
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The method I mostly used was to spawn from the smallest synapse formation to the biggest, but that proved a little slow as it meant counting all the time. Prenumbering is definitely worth considering.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Why is it important to determine which formation spawns first?

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Wouldn't it be easier just to use the Daemons mechanic, with pre-bought Gaunts?


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Why is it important to determine which formation spawns first?


It's very important for the spawning queue, as it determines what unit is spawned where.

If you limit it to gaunts, raveners or gargoyles depending on synapse creatures it's not important.

Personally I'd like to test the full spawning queue, but wouldn't mind if we ended up with limited spawning.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Why is it important to determine which formation spawns first?

Are you really asking this? Or do you think there's going to be a spawning queue every turn (including the 1st) that is enough to resupply all the fms on the table no matter where they sit in the priority list?

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:00 pm 
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I'm asking why spawn order is important if we're limiting what can be spawned to guants, gargoyles and raveners.

Another note:

Given the extra text you'd need to say, this formation can spawn X only, and that formation can spawn Y only, it probably be easier/simpler to say you can only spawn unit types that the formation started the game with and let the army list enforce it.

For example: A Tyrgon Prime formation can take Raveners, hence it can only spawn those back not the others.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Part of the reasoning behind limiting spawning as it does away with much of the need for a spawning queue. You can spawn whatever spawnable creature you want in any swarm you want. As far as I'm aware the spawning queue was suggested to stop the potential abuses of cross swarm spawning. These are mitigated by limiting what can be spawned.


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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:13 pm 
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Dave: Spawn order is important for the Spawning Queue idea, not for the limited unit spawning idea. We're discussing two separate possibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Whatever we go with, can we rename it to "Swarming" instead to finally get rid of the impression that it's soley about creatures giving birth?

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 Post subject: Re: [Tyranid Special Rules] Spawning
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:42 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Whatever we go with, can we rename it to "Swarming" instead to finally get rid of the impression that it's soley about creatures giving birth?

+1


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