Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point

 Post subject: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:28 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8711
Location: Worcester, MA
Here's two special rules that I'd like tested as well. Not sure if either of them will make the cut but up to one of them may be included in the 'nid list if there's enough support for it.

Planetary Assault

An attempt to simulate a "rain of spores". Add a the following to the army list under Synapse Swarms:

Attachment:
mycetic_swarn.png


Code:
Mycetic Swarm
n/a   n/a   n/a   n/a   n/a   Planetary Assault, Transport

Notes: Transport (may carry one formation that includes only Hive Tyrant, Tyranid Warriors, Genestealers, Termagants, Hormagaunts, Gargoyles, Raveners, Biovore, Carnifex and Zoanthrope (745.M41) units)

All units transported in a mycetic spore must disembark within 5cm of it or within 5cm of another unit from the same formation that has already been placed, so long as all units are within 15cm of the mycetic spore.


Quote:
Planetary Assault

Formations where all of the units have the planetary assault ability, or are transported in units with the ability, start the game in reserve and arrive randomly throughout the game. Roll a die for each of these formations at the start of a turn before placing units with tunneler. In order to arrive a formation must roll equal to or over a number determined by the current turn:

Turn Roll
1 5+
2 4+
3 3+
4 2+
5 1+

If a formation arrives then it must activate in the action phase and cannot delay to a later turn. Before you declare which action the formation will carry out place a unit with the ability anywhere on the table, the opposing player may then move it up to 45cm in any direction so long as it remains on the table. The unit then scatters 2d6cm in a random direction and lands.
If the unit lands off the table move it to the closest point on the table. If the unit lands on terrain that is impassable to it, on top of another unit, or in enemy zone of control then it is moved by the opposing player to the nearest area of clear ground where it can land.
After the unit has landed all other units with the ability must be placed within 5cm of another unit from the formation that has already been placed and within 15cm of the original unit. Any units being transported are now allowed to disembark. Landing does not count as movement for the purposes of triggering overwatch fire. Disembarking triggers overwatch fire as normal. The formation then declares which action it will carry out and rolls its action test.


Entry Point

Pretty much a Webway Porltal rewrite to make it generic. I also included Neal's rules for off-board formations in there. Add a Special Units to the army list for this one and put the Brood Nest under it, for 50 points you can replace any objective on your half of the table with it. A Brood Nest has Entry Point.

Quote:
Entry Point

Each entry point included in an army allows a player to keep up to three formations in reserve and have them enter play via an entry point. These formations may enter play by carrying out an action that allows them to make a move and then measuring their first move from the position that the entry point occupies on the table. A formation may use any of its army's entry points to enter play, not just the one that was “used” to allow it to be kept in reserve. Each entry point may only be used once per turn in this manner.

If a formation in reserve is using an entry point then it may only take actions which involve moving onto the board. If it is prevented from moving onto the board (e.g. the entry point is in enemy zone of control and the formation failed an action test) the formation loses its action. A formation that is unable to move onto the board may take no actions at all. Formations is reserve resolve effects that do not involve activation, such as rallying or critical hit resolutions, as normal.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:53 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8709
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Very characterful additions :)

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20862
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote:
Planetary Assault

I dislike this rule because it's completely random, lessening tactical complexity in Epic, a game that's supposed to emphasise tactical complexity.

Furthermore, it's an extra special rule in a list that already has too many special rules, and is the slowest playing list in the game in my experience.


If you want Tyranids raining down from space, stat up a Hiveship, and have some spore pods with planetfall. No special rules needed, especially not ones that lessen tactical complexity.

Quote:
Entry Point

Probably fine if you rip out another special rule.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Random sucks.

If you want random, go play one of the 28mm games. If you want strategy, you turn to 10mm and below.

Stop
Making
Epic
a
6mm
40k
Game

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1832
Location: Oslo, Norway
Have to agree about the randomness. Maybe for a scenario, but never for a GT list.

Portal looks OK, what kind of unit are you imagining for it?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:42 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:03 pm
Posts: 1081
Location: London, UK
Planetfall is fine and already exists. Why should the nids be different?

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:43 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
I too see nothing wrong with a hive ship and planetfalling/drop pod mechanics to represent mycetic spores. No need for a new special rule, and no need for randomness.

As for the webwayesque thing; a list that has teleporters, tunnellers and potentially planetfallers doesn't need yet another deep strike method. The Synapse Node represents brood nests etc perfectly well.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 36
+1 to forgetting about the randomness.

About the micetic swarm, I can say I like the idea and I was missing it indeed (it was partially included in the 9.2.1 with the vituperator, which I liked so much). The only thing for balance would be to put the option in the same section as the tunnelers, so you just choose wich type of units have the special entry and which troops they are.

The webway... that's more a zerg thing than a Tyranid concept: the entryway for the tyranids is several kilometres wide... nowhere where the enemy would be allowed to be... or a micetic spore falling in the middle of the enemy, which is reflected by the other mod.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:18 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2467
Location: UK
Does everything have to be represented by a special rule? Nids already have too many, it's starting to get farcical. Even if you got rid of some other rules to add these, I also agree about the randomness. Planetfall could work but you'd have to pay for it per formation otherwise what's the downside. You could put a high price on the Hive Ship but that just creates an efficiency discord (more efficient to max out the Hive Ship).

On a more general level, I don't think it feels right to give nids too many tactical options. You should know what to expect when you face them - a huge swarm of bugs coming at you across the table that you need to utterly destroy. A few special units is one thing (lictors) but you're proposing to give them the same tactical flexibility as Eldar, or better. Decide how you want the army to play, and design the list around it.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Broken Record Time

Hive Fleet Tarrasque had a workable example of mycetic spores without the need for special rules. It also had costings built in and a Hive Ship - all of which have been suggested above.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:50 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5300
Location: Bristol
I also reckon a hiveship ship should be statted up with mycetic pods using the standard planetfall rules. There's a BFG model that deserves to be used and the proposed additional rule is unnecessary.

It's not unreasonable for the Hiveship to have evolved targeting mechanisms for the pods, so that they are aimed near concentrations of living creatures. And/or the pods could have biological sensors in some form and limited thrusters to adust their descent in flight through venting gas or sticking out fins.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:10 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 8711
Location: Worcester, MA
After the Phase III games we've had I'd rather not open up the Tyranid lists to Planetfall. Not only did it seem too deliberate/pre-planned for the bugs but dropping them in the opponents face made for some very quick games. If planetary assault doesn't pan out then swarming will work fine as a good abstraction for mycetic spores.

_________________
Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2018-05-15


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:28 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 36
I can see the problem of letting tyranids drop on the faces of some armies, like imperial guard or maybe eldar or tau, cause part of their advantage is having the possibility to have them distant and choose when to fight them. The problem is that as per the games I've tried with them lately, they seem not to fight very well for several reasons (I'm opening a specific topic for this subject).

However, I'm ok with not having them dropping down if they can win by arms (if they are really a threat once they reach I mean); however I'm not seeing it in the table, which is why "choking" the enemy a bit more and having them "leave home" sheems appealing.

I feel the nid as a huge and fearing devourer swarm and it's not happening. The other way to see it is to think as in alien: they die against rounds, but they are everywhere, anywhere, they're surrounding us and they're coming after us.


Last edited by etriustremere on Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:08 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Australia
Dave wrote:
After the Phase III games we've had I'd rather not open up the Tyranid lists to Planetfall. Not only did it seem too deliberate/pre-planned for the bugs but dropping them in the opponents face made for some very quick games. If planetary assault doesn't pan out then swarming will work fine as a good abstraction for mycetic spores.

Can you say the same for Marine/Chaos blitzkrieg or the Necron 'hit and hide' forces?

Basing a decision on a metagame rather than looking at like examples is limited in my view.

Restrict the mycetic drops through formation selection or points and this should not be an issue. Most (if not all) forces should be able to knock the hive ship out for a turn with their own Spacecraft on initial turn selection and set up for some agressive overwatch tactics on the ground waiting for that next turn. If not (a spaceship) at least you know what turn they are arriving so you can STRATEGISE. You also have the planetfall scatter and the fact that they all have to remain within a certain distance and not chain (a restriction).

I do not believe the total picture is being looked at.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Additions: Planetary Assault and Entry Point
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:40 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
I agree with Frogbear; make the Hive Ship and Mycetic Spore options expensive enough and it can be balanced without the need for a random special rule.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 55 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net