Tactical Command
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Genestealer Cult List v1.0
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21892
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Author:  zombocom [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

mango2 wrote:
It doesnt sit well that civilian cultists are firing Space Marine statistic wepons at good range, plus I would prefer to keep it cheap and have more of a horde feel to it.


It already is a cheap horde, I just don't want it to be a useless cheap horde. ML are not just a marine weapon; guard autocannons are identical. My guys only have one on every other base, like guard, and have lower FF.

They're weaker at range than guard, due to not getting the extra commander autocannon and having lower FF.

Author:  mango2 [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
The only other list they're in is LaTD, which in my view is a total mess of a list. I'm not willing to compromise this list for a weak veneer of officiality.


they are actually in the 2012 compendium under
STIGMATUS COVENANT CULTIST CHAOS ARMY
SPACE WOLVES SPACE MARINE ARMY
ALPHA LEGION UPRISING CHAOS ARMY
DAEMON WORLD CHAOS ARMY
KHORNE RENEGADES CHAOS ARMY

sorry for the caps, I just cut and pasted from the list :)

Author:  mango2 [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
It already is a cheap horde, I just don't want it to be a useless cheap horde.


Agreed

zombocom wrote:
ML are not just a marine weapon; guard autocannons are identical. My guys only have one on every other base, like guard, and have lower FF.


Very true, i missed the 1 on every 2 bases notation :)

Author:  mango2 [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
The aircraft are directly copied from the mossinian list; they're the established stats for a PDF airforce. They're meant to be weak.


DL that list now, has it been renamed for the 2012 Compendium or not submitted?

Author:  zombocom [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

You'll find it in Epic: Siege.

Author:  zombocom [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

A few new ideas for the next version:

Change Civilian Vehicles to 2 for 25 points as it's the only non-25 step in the list.
A formation of just Civilian Vehicles, say 6 for 125 points.
Cult Bikers, something like 30cm speed, Armour 6+, CC4+, FF6+, no weapons.
Genestealer Ark: War engine, basically a tougher, slower Patriarch.

Author:  frogbear [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
A few new ideas for the next version:

Change Civilian Vehicles to 2 for 25 points as it's the only non-25 step in the list.
A formation of just Civilian Vehicles, say 6 for 125 points.
Cult Bikers, something like 30cm speed, Armour 6+, CC4+, FF6+, no weapons.
Genestealer Ark: War engine, basically a tougher, slower Patriarch.


25 point margins are something that pleases me

I like all these ideas actually.

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

mango2 wrote:
zombocom wrote:
The only other list they're in is LaTD, which in my view is a total mess of a list. I'm not willing to compromise this list for a weak veneer of officiality.


they are actually in the 2012 compendium under
STIGMATUS COVENANT CULTIST CHAOS ARMY
SPACE WOLVES SPACE MARINE ARMY
ALPHA LEGION UPRISING CHAOS ARMY
DAEMON WORLD CHAOS ARMY
KHORNE RENEGADES CHAOS ARMY

sorry for the caps, I just cut and pasted from the list :)



the space wolves and khorne renegades don't have them, the others do as a standard transport for cultists. Given that two of the three are being looked at (and the land transporter is one of the things that might change) and the Alpha legion uprising is still experimental, not much of an issue.

EDIT: also look at the Insurgency! list for Armoured technicals, a third variant.

Author:  zombocom [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

A few other ideas:

Patriarch loses Supreme Commander, Magus gains it - At the moment I struggle to see reasons to take the Magus, and the more I read, the more it seems like it's the Magus who's the strategic commander, with the Patriarch as more of a revered figurehead. As a result, I think the Magus should be the Supreme Commander, while the Patriarch retains his "+1 to rally for everyone while he's alive/BM for everyone if he dies" rule.

Teleporting Genestealers (and possibly other formation types)

Allowing Garrisoning for any formation with at least 50% infantry.

Author:  mango2 [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

madd0ct0r wrote:
the space wolves and khorne renegades don't have them, the others do as a standard transport for cultists.


hey Maddoc, I was talking about the 'Heavy Weapons' as a weapon type not the transport vehicles :)

zombocom wrote:
A few new ideas for the next version:

Change Civilian Vehicles to 2 for 25 points as it's the only non-25 step in the list.
A formation of just Civilian Vehicles, say 6 for 125 points.
Cult Bikers, something like 30cm speed, Armour 6+, CC4+, FF6+, no weapons.
Genestealer Ark: War engine, basically a tougher, slower Patriarch.


sounds good, this is already distracting me from painting my marines, too much thinking of what models to use and how to paint them :)

Author:  Ghudra [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
A few other ideas:

Patriarch loses Supreme Commander, Magus gains it - At the moment I struggle to see reasons to take the Magus, and the more I read, the more it seems like it's the Magus who's the strategic commander, with the Patriarch as more of a revered figurehead.


For gameplay this might make more sense. It runs contrary to the original fluff, but is definitely in line with more recent work.

Per the original work done by Murphy, Ansell, & Stillman, the Patriarch is the Commander and gains knowledge of the host race through infected thralls. He constantly directs the actions of the Magus (the senior 4th gen hybrid) through brood telepathy. Chambers supported this view when Tyranids were introduced, but it was changed in 40K 2nd ed. so that either Patriarch or Magus could be the Commander and the Magus was basically directing The Cult's operations.
Hucklebery really elevated the role of the Magus and put most of the weight of The Cult's survival on his shoulders.

Some other bits that may be crafted to serve a purpose in Epic are the Cult Icon Bearers, Cult Roughriders, & Cult Relic. Given the psychic power of the Patriarch/Magus, maybe some sort of arcane psychic weapon would even fit in.

Author:  frogbear [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

zombocom wrote:
A few other ideas:
Patriarch loses Supreme Commander, Magus gains it - At the moment I struggle to see reasons to take the Magus,


I think this is a good move. It should almost guarantee that the Magus is taken in every force. In doing so however, please reduce the Patriarch's points. I would even expect that 50 points is acceptable for that model now.

Quote:
Teleporting Genestealers (and possibly other formation types)
Allowing Garrisoning for any formation with at least 50% infantry.


I believe all the above would be ok (I do worry about other units teleporting however).

When the list (v0.5) comes out, then let's see if we can break it :)

Author:  Ulrik [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

There's plenty of real world background for a cult-like modern army to use missile launchers. Basically every guerilla army or rebellion since WWII has used the trusty RPG.

I also hate the "heavy weapons" on the Land Transporter, fwiw.

Author:  zombocom [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

Ghudra wrote:
For gameplay this might make more sense. It runs contrary to the original fluff, but is definitely in line with more recent work.


Yeah, the Magus has increased in importance as time has gone one, especially as a battlefield leader, whereas the Patriarch has moved to more of a symbolic rather than direct leadership role.

Doing it this way also neatly makes the death of either the Magus or Patriarch a big deal to the army, as it should be. Currently, losing the Magus makes little difference.

Ghudra wrote:
Some other bits that may be crafted to serve a purpose in Epic are the Cult Icon Bearers, Cult Roughriders, & Cult Relic. Given the psychic power of the Patriarch/Magus, maybe some sort of arcane psychic weapon would even fit in.


I considered Rough Riders, but they'd be almost identical to Genestealers in stats, so didn't seem worthwhile, whereas I think Bikers can have a different role.

Not sure what those others would actually do in game.

Author:  zombocom [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Genestealer Cult List v0.4

frogbear wrote:
I think this is a good move. It should almost guarantee that the Magus is taken in every force. In doing so however, please reduce the Patriarch's points. I would even expect that 50 points is acceptable for that model now.


I'd expect the Magus and Patriarch will swap points costs.

frogbear wrote:
When the list (v0.5) comes out, then let's see if we can break it :)


I'm in the process of writing the unit fluff text for the Cult for Epic: Hive at the moment, so it should be out in a few days.

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