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Hive Fleet Dagon 1.3b NetEA, v1.5b E-UK

 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon E-UK v1.5b NetEA 1.2b (F-ERC Tyranids)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Quote:
As things look now, I'll be working more on the NetEA list as that is the one which will be compatible with NetEA approval.

I'll stick to giving feedback on it then, trying to compare cost/performance values and fitness for a particular role across a single list is already brain-knotting enough, especially since all we're doing is speculation without having had the occasion of playtesting yet (or have you gotten any games with this list?).
Also, I think there's some statblocks that NetEA does better, and some that UK does.

Anyway, here's some scattered thoughts concerning the NetEA version:

    - Any reason for going back to the original french Lictor instead of the NetEA one? What I'm most concerned about is the 15cms movement. With the crappy initiative, they're already going to have a hard time not being wiped out before they act (if you're trying to use them offensively, that is).
    Also, I like them having Sniper :P

    - Summing the weaker NetEA stat-block of the Harridan to the UK/french decrease to Gargoyles' FF makes Harasser Swarms pretty lame right now. The formation lost assault capability compared to either the UK
    or the french Swarm, and that made it pretty useful as mobile infantry.

    - Not sure about the nerf to the Trygon. Also, is it intended that they've become more cost-effective than the Tyrannofexes at shielding a Dominatrix? I would have imagined the bigger, nastier creatures to better, or at least on par at that.

    - Since Carnifexes are not fearless anymore, there's no point in taking them anymore outside drop-podded Swarms, as Haruspexes cost the same for equal stats plus a ranged attack.
    Obviously fitting into Spores sort of balances out the lack of fearless, but you're taking away choice in formation composition, compared to the two units having different roles (CC focus vs more all-around usability).

    - Bad change to the Malefactors: the FF focus they had before allowed them to be more supportive of the carried INF when making full use of their movement in an assault (i.e. allowing Termagants to keep up with infiltrating Hormagaunts, while keeping outside the standard 15+15cms assault range of on foot FF INF).

    - I'm not sure about all support creatures (Biovore, Exocrine, Dactylis) going down to 15cms movement. That limits the usability (especially for Exocrines) of units that I'm already unsure how to successfully use (and you are too). I think before fiddling with their stats any more, you have to envision their role in the list.

    - What's the reason for the drop to the Barbed Tyrannofex's CC?

    - Same as above for not picking NetEA's titans.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon E-UK v1.5b NetEA 1.2b (F-ERC Tyranids)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Stone Dog wrote:
Any reason for going back to the original french Lictor instead of the NetEA one? What I'm most concerned about is the 15cms movement. With the crappy initiative, they're already going to have a hard time not being wiped out before they act (if you're trying to use them offensively, that is).
Also, I like them having Sniper :P


The NetEA version is super weak. It only has one attack, so will struggle to kill even weak units. And it's 15cm with Infiltrate, so not that bad.

Quote:
Summing the weaker NetEA stat-block of the Harridan to the UK/french decrease to Gargoyles' FF makes Harasser Swarms pretty lame right now. The formation lost assault capability compared to either the UK
or the french Swarm, and that made it pretty useful as mobile infantry.


The NetEA version has 3 wounds, compared to two in F-ERC. So going into CC with it was always a bit dicey. I'm generally sceptical of the Harridan, as I think it easily becomes a no-brainer.

Quote:
Not sure about the nerf to the Trygon. Also, is it intended that they've become more cost-effective than the Tyrannofexes at shielding a Dominatrix? I would have imagined the bigger, nastier creatures to better, or at least on par at that.


Simply decided that the NetEA were "good enough", and has some benefits. The Trygon Prime has 4+ RA, so it's better. Might buff it further.
Think these cheaper Trygons will do nicely as screens for the Dominatrix, I don't really think Trygons should have Infiltrate like in the E-UK list.

Quote:
Since Carnifexes are not fearless anymore, there's no point in taking them anymore outside drop-podded Swarms, as Haruspexes cost the same for equal stats plus a ranged attack.
Obviously fitting into Spores sort of balances out the lack of fearless, but you're taking away choice in formation composition, compared to the two units having different roles (CC focus vs more all-around usability).


Good points on the Carnifexes. Might make them cheaper actually (making it a point for them to be their own category!)

Quote:
Bad change to the Malefactors: the FF focus they had before allowed them to be more supportive of the carried INF when making full use of their movement in an assault (i.e. allowing Termagants to keep up with infiltrating Hormagaunts, while keeping outside the standard 15+15cms assault range of on foot FF INF).


But they have 4+ RA instead of 5+! That alone makes up for losing the FF. Means that you can have stuff sitting in the transports between turns, which is potentially super-nasty.

Quote:
I'm not sure about all support creatures (Biovore, Exocrine, Dactylis) going down to 15cms movement. That limits the usability (especially for Exocrines) of units that I'm already unsure how to successfully use (and you are too). I think before fiddling with their stats any more, you have to envision their role in the list.


The Exocrine has 20cm move and 4+ RA, and the Dactylis has 4+ RA... The Dactylis also cost 175 (!) points less than in the NetEA list.

The Biovore stats are from the french list, and since they're AA here, I'm inclined to try it out before I make them better.

Quote:
What's the reason for the drop to the Barbed Tyrannofex's CC?


It's the french stats, I'll have to try those first I think. I've made them a lot cheaper than in the french list.

Quote:
Same as above for not picking NetEA's titans.


Not sure what the question is? But I'll answer anyway: This is basically the french titans but with Reg and some changes adopted from the E-UK list. The NetEA titans have more attacks, but are each two DC less. One could potentially just buff the NetEA DC and call it a day, but I'd like to try the french titans first.

Thanks for the feedback!

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon 1.3b NetEA, v1.5b E-UK
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
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