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Crowdfunder Campaign 1

 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:36 am 
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Doomkitten wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
I'd love to not see cheesecake for once ::) . Tweaked positioning however is great.


Non-cheesecake sculpts meant to represent fighting females makes every sense and would be a refreshing and welcome change - it's actually possible to be female and not have to pander to drooling cretins demanding corsets and six-inch heels.


Amen. Wargaming has a rightly deserved reputation as terribly unwelcoming toward women, and getting rid of the cheesecake obsession would be one step in making things better.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:28 am 
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SquatWarlord wrote:
To each thier own if you don't like something then don't buy it and don't insult people who like a different style than you.



Declaring "no to this" isn't merely liking a style, it's an obtuse and ignorant point of view, demeaning, out of touch with reality and insulting by suggesting that the four women in actual battle dress are somehow -wrong-. I suggest you take a few moments to look at the women in those uniforms and respect THEM instead of only looking at the uniforms and how titillating they are to you. The attitude expressed in your picture parade holds everyone here back and demeans us all, men and women alike.

For the record, I only want to insult the idea and the mindset behind demanding women are objects to be formed in only one distorted, hyper-sexualised image. That idea IS worthy of being broken down and thrown out of the actual hobby here. That hobby in question, that somehow we share, is NOT staring at fetishised 'political officer' bondage Mistresses in 6mm but wargaming and enjoying excellent minis. Vanguard has done that superbly without selling soft porn in 6mm so far.



John, PLEASE don't pander to such fetishistic views! You and your range of miniatures and your designers are all far better than that and you do not need to resort to such misogynistic and demeaning interpretations of women to sell a handful of 6mm miniature.

Best of luck with the Stretch Goals!


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:43 am 
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Doomkitten wrote:
SquatWarlord wrote:
To each thier own if you don't like something then don't buy it and don't insult people who like a different style than you.



Declaring "no to this" isn't merely liking a style, it's an obtuse and ignorant point of view, demeaning, out of touch with reality and insulting by suggesting that the four women in actual battle dress are somehow -wrong-. I suggest you take a few moments to look at the women in those uniforms and respect THEM instead of only looking at the uniforms and how titillating they are to you. The attitude expressed in your picture parade holds everyone here back and demeans us all, men and women alike.

For the record, I only want to insult the idea and the mindset behind demanding women are objects to be formed in only one distorted, hyper-sexualised image. That idea IS worthy of being broken down and thrown out of the actual hobby here. That hobby in question, that somehow we share, is NOT staring at fetishised 'political officer' bondage Mistresses in 6mm but wargaming and enjoying excellent minis. Vanguard has done that superbly without selling soft porn in 6mm so far.



John, PLEASE don't pander to such fetishistic views! You and your range of miniatures and your designers are all far better than that and you do not need to resort to such misogynistic and demeaning interpretations of women to sell a handful of 6mm miniature.

Best of luck with the Stretch Goals!


You have problems, blowing this way out of proportion. If you have real life issue with this well look after it there not on a gaming forum.
I did not even know what the meaning of cheesecake before.
I had to look it up .
Those 4 photos of models I posted before have sold over 500 units at 16.00 US a pop as a business that's pretty darn good. Make stuff that sells.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 am 
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SquatWarlord wrote:
You have problems, blowing this way out of proportion. If you have real life issue with this well look after it there not on a gaming forum.


Pervasive sexualization and objectification of women is consistently normalized enough that any response or pushback against it looks disproportionate. pillage culture is a thing, and dismissing people who point it out is part of it.

SquatWarlord wrote:
I did not even know what the meaning of cheesecake before.
I had to look it up .


So?

SquatWarlord wrote:
Those 4 photos of models I posted before have sold over 500 units at 16.00 US a pop as a business that's pretty darn good. Make stuff that sells.


Yup, people buy all sorts of things that are disrespectful. Women are objectified in all sorts of ways, through all sorts of media and products. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's not problematic.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:06 am 
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I'm here to talk about models any other topics I am not interested.

I guess that's because I am an obtuse fetishistic misogynistic drooling ignorant cretin who is out of touch with reality and who wants to do demeaning things to my hyper-sexualised 6mm female miniatures.
Really harsh!
So many words , too many , your anger directed at me, I'm not the cause of it if something happened to you in life.
Focus your energy there.
Life is too short.
Move along nothing to see.


Last edited by SquatWarlord on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:26 am 
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Hmm...it is an interesting discussion. To me it feels that the table top wargaming community might this moment of self reflection. However, I wonder if this thread is the right place for such a discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:56 am 
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GlynG wrote:
I like the new smaller wheel tank more than the bigger one.

Good to see the bomber aircraft too. How do these compare in size to the old GW and FW flyers?


The other aircraft is just a variant of the fighter. So it's the same size. A bigger fighter bomber is being planned, but sadly enough won't be ready for this campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:16 am 
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Not the place for a debate, but definitely the place to say - Dude, not ok.

There’s a grey area, but the pics SW is posting and more importantly the “i’m being sexist and i don’t care” attitude is way beyond the grey. Leave it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:40 am 
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It’d also be good to know how big the rampager and new gladiators are. Cheers MD.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:51 am 
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I will get you some shots of the rampager tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:25 am 
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Amen. Wargaming has a rightly deserved reputation as terribly unwelcoming toward women, and getting rid of the cheesecake obsession would be one step in making things better.


My opinion on this topic is that there is space for both styles of models, where appropriate.

For the political officers, I chose to make them properly dressed, because I wanted a realistic depiction of how a woman PO might go to war, appropriate to the setting we have developed.

For the "pilot" of the Convent Redeemer, I chose to have her wearing very little, not because she is supposed to titilate, but because she's supposed to be unsettling. Is this woman even in control of the vehicle she has been attached to? Is she intended to survive the battle at all? Probably not, is my answer to both of those. So the "cheesecake" there is supposed to horrify, rather than be voyeuristic - as I mentioned upthread, my original intention was to have her wearing even less, but it was deemed too unsettling!


Now, is there space in the wargames market in general for women who stride into a hail of bullets wearing lingerie?
Sure, it obviously sells.

Will I be sculpting any such models for the DiD range, in any of the scales we're now operating in?
I doubt it. I'm not a big fan of such stylings in a model due to the typical motivation behind the chosen aesthetic, unless I can make it unsettling or disturbing in some manner, to turn the voyeuristic element on its head.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:15 pm 
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McJakub wrote:
Addnig longer hair to our political officers would make them look more feminine and not that crazy


Also perhaps shrink the greatcoat to just a jacket. Less about them not wearing great coats (because they would) but to emphasize a different silhouette at 6mm, which is difficult.

SquatWarlord wrote:
Doomkitten wrote:

Non-cheesecake sculpts meant to represent fighting females makes every sense and would be a refreshing and welcome change - it's actually possible to be female and not have to pander to drooling cretins demanding corsets and six-inch heels.

To each thier own if you don't like something then don't buy it and don't insult people who like a different style than you.
Attachment:
article-1385131-0BF94B7A00000578-556_964x632.jpg
Attachment:
2941564021_7722691924_z.jpg

Yes to this
Attachment:
0_65044_81047c24_orig.jpg

No to this

Funny that the top two you point out are demonstrably NOT cheesecake and nay a single corset to be found whatsoever there. Interesting that... Oh and they're in dress uniforms, not battle which the bottom one is, so which would be more appropriate.

Want to see what females in combat look like, a topic some of us here may know a little about, chief? I'm pretty sure I'd of noticed bewb armor and corsets but otoh worrying about a Katyusha tends to make that less of topic :eh
Image

No one is insulting you so step off man, relax, let's get back to playing with our toys. But we're on a crowdfunding page that we happen to not like silly cheesecake and prefer a more grim style ourselves. You'd prefer a different style. That's find too. MD can take whatever feedback and chose to produce whatever he wants. We all as consumers can make a decision to buy or not to buy thereafter.

SquatWarlord wrote:
Does it have bombs? Moar bombs please!!

YES MOAR BOMBS. Underside shot?

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:28 pm 
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The coat does have a different shape to my male political officer(s)- Wider hips, narrower waist, narrower shoulders, and a different chest shape obviously.

I'm not sure about the longer hair thing - might a political officer just want a crew cut, just like the rest of the infantry?


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:31 pm 
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I did notice the dfiff but at 15mm i think it may be noticeable enough. At 6mm I suspect it just blends together.

ps the chainsword is EXCELLENT

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunder Campaign 1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:33 pm 
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I'm tempted to trust in the capability of the awesome new printers we have available these days, they're really a step beyond what I used to work with.

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