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Points formula values for Titan Legions

 Post subject: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:40 am 
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Updated for most recent version of the formula (V0.46).
__________________________

Model or Formation name _ V0.46 Cost _ vs 0.43 _ vs Gold

_ Titan Legions
_Model value
Adeptus Mechanicus: _______ 47.6 ____ -1.05 __ -2.4
Adeptus Psyker: ___________ 43.925 ___ 0 ____ -56.08
Astropath: ________________ 53.2 _____ 0 ____ -46.8
Forward Observer: _________ 47.04 ____ 0 ____ +22.04
Grey Knights: ____________ 107.14 ___ -9.72 __ +7.136
Inquisitor: ______________ 199.29 __ -22.05 _ +99.29
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: _ 117.95 __ -22.05 _ -32.05
Assault HQ: _______________ 50.05 ___ -6.3 __ +50.05
Tactical HQ: ______________ 37.1 _____ 0 ____ +37.1
Assault: __________________ 15.4 ____ -1.994 _ -4.6
Heavy: ____________________ 26.95 ____ 0 ____ -13.05
Tactical: _________________ 10.45 ____ 0 ____ -14.55
Chimedon: _________________ 44 ______ -1.925 _ -6
Chimera: __________________ 31.625 __ -1.925 _ -3.375
Chimera, Command: _________ 71.925 __ -3.85 _ +36.925
Chimera, Command Stealth __ 86.31 ___ -4.62 _ +51.31
Chimerax: _________________ 35.75 ___ -1.925_ -14.25
Chimerro: _________________ 41.525 __ +1.375 _ -8.475
Hellhound: ________________ 27.473 _ -31.93 _ -22.53
Hydra AA Gun: _____________ 86.075 ___ 0 _____ +1.075
Leman Russ: _______________ 53.364 __ -3.85 _ -11.64
Leman Russ, Command: _____ 105.37 ___ -7.7 __ +40.368
Recon Land Speeder: ______ 114.66 ___ -2.94 _ +74.66
Rhino, Command ____________ 74.043 ___ 0 ____ +74.043
Rhino, Command Stealth ____ 88.851 ___ 0 ____ +88.851
Sabre Tank-Hunter: ________ 32.725 ___ 0 _____ -2.275
Basilisk: ________________ 135.96 ____ 0 ____ +70.96
Bombard: _________________ 191.95 ____ 0 ___ +126.95
Griffon: __________________ 83.916 ___ 0 ____ +18.916
Manticore: ________________ 75.818 ___ 0 ____ +10.818
Thunderbolt Fighter: _____ 131.84 __ -64.63 _ +46.835
Marauder Bomber: _________ 130.61 __ -15.47 _ +15.611
Knight Baron: ____________ 196.67 __ -39.2 ___ -3.335
Knight Castellian: _______ 102.92 ___ -3.6 __ -62.09
Knight Crusader: _________ 110.12 ___ -3.6 __ -54.89
Knight Errant: ____________ 98.415 _ -25.2 __ +13.415
Knight Errant, Command: __ 127.22 __ -38.7 __ +42.215
Knight Lancer: ____________ 74.775 _ -12.6 __ -25.225
Knight Lancer, Command: __ 109.76 __ -16.8 ___ +9.755
Knight Paladin: ___________ 88.215 _ -16.8 __ -11.79
Knight Paladin, Command: _ 120.32 __ -25.2 __ +20.315
Knight Warden Mk1 & 3: ____ 60.645 __ -3.6 __ -24.36
Knight Warden Mk2: ________ 74.645 __ -3.6 __ -10.32
Stormblade: ______________ 154.88 ___ +1.65_ -145.1
Imperial Dropship: _______ 643.59 __ +15.09_ +243.59
AMO Armageddon: __________ 787.85 ___ -4.03_ +287.85
AMO Golgotha: ____________ 561.03 ___ -4.03_ +211.03
AMO Mars: _______________ 1310 ____ -865 ___ +960
Warhound hull: ___________ 293.57 __ -51.52_ +168.57
Reaver hull: _____________ 331.49 __ -48.3 __ +31.488
Warlord hull: ____________ 407.53 __ -33.81 _ -92.47
Warlord Psy Titan: _______ 645.11 _ -183 _____ -4.889
Imperator: ______________ 1908.6 ___ -13.28_ -341.4


Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List:

_ Company Formations:
Knight Paladin: ______ 498 __ -145 _ -102
Knight Lancer: _______ 430 __ -119 _ -170
Knight Errant: _______ 548 __ -193 __ +48
Titan Defense: _______ 176 _____ 0 _ -324
Mechanized*: _________ 451 ___ -17 _ -299
Mechanized Assault*: _ 530 ___ -49 _ -120
Leman Russ: __________ 452 ___ -33 _ -298
Stormblade: __________ 361 ____ +3 _ -549

* Upgrade 3 Chimera:
_ to Chimedon: _ +37 ___ 0 __ +37
_ to Chimerax: _ +12 ___ 0 __ +12
_ to Chimerro: _ +30 ___ 0 __ +30

_ Special Formations:
Adeptus Mechanicus, CmChimera: 135 ___ -6 __ +35
Adeptus Mechanicus, CmRhino: _ 138 ___ -1 __ +38
Adeptus Psyker, CmChimera: ____ 58 ___ -1 __ -42
Adeptus Psyker, CmRhino: ______ 59 ____ 0 __ -41
Astropath, CmChimera: _________ 68 ____ 0 __ -32
Astropath, CmRhino: ___________ 68 ____ 0 __ -32
Forward Observer, CmChimera: _ 149 ___ -5 __ +99
Forward Observer, CmRhino: ___ 152 ____ 0 _ +102
Grey Knights: ________________ 321 __ -30 __ -79
Inquisitor, CmChimera: _______ 214 __ -23 _ +114
Inquisitor, CmRhino: _________ 214 __ -22 _ +114
Knight Baron: ________________ 197 __ -52 ___ -3
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor, C: __ 132 __ -23 __ -18
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor, R: __ 133 __ -22 __ -17

Imperial Dropship: _ 644 __ +16 __ +244
AMO Armageddon: ____ 788 ___ -3 __ +288
AMO Golgotha: ______ 561 ___ -4 __ +211
AMO Mars: _________ 1310 _ -239 __ +960
Psy Titan: _________ 645 __ -75 ____ -5
Warhound hull: _____ 294 __ -51 __ +169
2x Warhound hulls __ 587 _ -103 __ +337
Reaver hull: _______ 331 __ -49 ___ +31
Warlord hull: ______ 408 __ -33 ___ -92

_ Support Formations:
Heavy: _______________ 121 ____ 0 _ -129
Tactical: _____________ 47 ____ 0 _ -103
Mechanized Assault
_ Chimera ____________ 144 __ -13 __ -81
_ Chimedon ___________ 174 __ -14 __ -51
_ Chimerax ___________ 154 __ -13 __ -71
_ Chimerro ___________ 168 __ -14 __ -57
Mechanized Heavy
_ Chimera ____________ 194 ___ -5 _ -156
_ Chimedon ___________ 224 ___ -5 _ -126
_ Chimerax ___________ 207 ___ -3 _ -143
_ Chimerro ___________ 218 ___ -5 _ -132
Mechanized Tactical
_ Chimera ____________ 123 ___ -4 _ -152
_ Chimedon ___________ 153 ___ -5 _ -122
_ Chimerax ___________ 133 ___ -4 _ -142
_ Chimerro ___________ 148 ___ -3 _ -117

Chimera: _____ 74 ___ -4 __ -26
Chimedon: ___ 103 ___ -4 __ -47
Chimerax: ____ 83 ___ -5 __ -67
Chimerro: ____ 97 ___ -4 __ -53
Hellhound: ___ 64 __ -47 __ -86
Hydra: ______ 201 ____ 0 __ -99
Leman Russ: _ 125 ___ -8 _ -125
Sabre: _______ 76 ____ 0 __ -24

Basilisk: __ 317 _____ 0 _ +118
Bombard: ___ 448 _____ 0 _ +252
Griffon: ___ 196 _____ 0 ___ -4
Manticore: _ 177 _____ 0 __ -23

Marauder: ____ 305 __ -36 __ -45
Thunderbolt: _ 308 _ -150 __ +58

Castellian: _______ 240 __ -35 _ -260
Crusader: _________ 257 __ -35 _ -243
Errant: ___________ 230 __ -79 __ -20
Lancer: ___________ 174 __ -51 _ -126
Paladin: __________ 206 __ -60 __ -94
Warden:
_ 3x Mk1 or Mk3 ____ 142 __ -29 _ -108
_ 3x Mk2 ___________ 174 __ -30 __ -76
_ 2x Mk1/3, 1x Mk2 _ 156 __ -29 __ -94
_ 2x Mk2, 1x Mk1/3 _ 160 __ -30 __ -90

Stormblade: ________ 155 ___ +2 __ -145

Titan Legions List

_ Company Formations:
Imperator Titan: _________ 1909 __ -13 _ -341
Reaver Group (3 hulls): ___ 994 _ -145 __ +94
Warlord Group (3 hulls): _ 1223 _ -101 _ -277

_ Support Formations:
Warhound hull: _____ 294 __ -51 __ +169
2x Warhound hulls __ 587 _ -103 __ +337
Reaver hull: _______ 331 __ -49 ___ +31
Warlord hull: ______ 408 __ -33 ___ -92


Sample Army ___________ v046 __ 043 ___ Gold
---Legio Victorum
Warlord Titan Group ___ 1223 _ 1324 __ var
-#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500
-- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75
-- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75
-- Plasma Destructor Re _ 90 ___ 90 __ 125
-- Barrage Missile _____ 634 __ 845 __ 100
-- Volcano Cannon ______ 242 __ 322 __ 100
-#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500
-- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75
-- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75
-- Gatling Blaster ______ 58 ___ 58 ___ 60
-- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100
-- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100
-#3 _____________________ na ___ na __ 500
-- Fire Control __________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 75
-- Deathstrike _________ 103 __ 139 ___ 75
-- Laser Blaster ________ 29 ___ 29 ___ 50
-- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100
-- Multi-Launcher ______ 130 __ 365 __ 100
-Su Warhound Titans ____ 587 __ 690 __ var
-#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125
-- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 __ 50
-- Inferno Gun ___________ 8 ___ 54 ___ 50
-#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125
-- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 __ 50
-- Laser Blaster ________ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50
Reaver Titan Group _____ 994 _ 1139 __ var
-#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300
-- Volcano Cannon ______ 161 __ 161 __ 100
-- Turbo-Laser __________ 58 ___ 58 ___ 75
-- Chain Fist ___________ 52 ___ 38 ___ 25
-#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300
-- Quake Cannon ________ 100 ___ 93 ___ 85
-- Inferno Gun ___________ 8 ___ 54 ___ 50
-- Wrecker ______________ 55 ___ 55 ___ 25
-#3 _____________________ na ___ na __ 300
-- Gatling Blaster ______ 39 ___ 39 ___ 60
-- Melta-Cannon _________ 52 ___ 52 ___ 50
-- Power Fist ___________ 43 ___ 43 ___ 15
-Su Warhound Titans ____ 587 __ 690 __ var
-#1 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125
-- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50
-- Gatling Blaster ______ 39 ___ 39 ___ 60
-#2 _____________________ na ___ na __ 125
-- Vulcan Mega-Bolter ___ 19 ___ 19 ___ 50
-- Melta-Cannon _________ 52 ___ 52 ___ 50
Ally Imperial Guard
Tactical Company _______ 417 __ 436 __ 600
-Sp Adeptus Mechanicus _ 122 __ 127 __ 100
-Su Predator ___________ 103 __ 103 __ 200
--- Totals ____________ 6779 _ 5359 _ 6000

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Last edited by MagnusIlluminus on Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:03 pm, edited 11 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Hi!

It is very appropriate that the Imperator's cost is so high. I always believed it was remarkably cheap for its firepower and durability.

I have never seen it fall in battle, so at over 4600 points, it should only appear in the most "titanic" of battles. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:15 pm 
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A large portion of it's cost comes from it's Armor saves, since it rolls 2d6 as if a building! That is a bit over 1600 right there.

It's weapon costs come to:
Main Battery: 763
secondary weapons: 64
Defense Laser: 640
Gun Towers: 108
Hellstorm: 768
Plasma Annihilator: 304

I can go over the rest of the factors if anyone is curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:21 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
A large portion of it's cost comes from it's Armor saves, since it rolls 2d6 as if a building! That is a bit over 1600 right there.

It's weapon costs come to:
Main Battery: 763
secondary weapons: 64
Defense Laser: 640
Gun Towers: 108
Hellstorm: 768
Plasma Annihilator: 304

I can go over the rest of the factors if anyone is curious.


Hi!

Having used it over the years and its clear dominance, I like that its cost is so high. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:40 am 
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If you thought it's cost was high as a model, wait until you see it's cost as a Company...
____________________________________

Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List:

_ Company Formations: calculated cost (NEGold)
Knight Paladin: 1135 (600)
Knight Lancer: 1190 (600)
Knight Errant: 1150 (500)
Titan Defense: 210 (500)
Mechanized: 550 (750)
Mechanized Assault: 720 (650)
Leman Russ: 650 (750)
Stormblade: 835 (900)

_ Special Formations:
[Note: all Command Rhino replaced with Command Chimera]
Adeptus Mechanicus: 175 (100)
Adeptus Psyker: 165 (100)
Astropath: 165 (100)
Forward Observer: 205 (50)
Grey Knights: 505 (400)
Inquisitor: 330 (100)
Knight Baron: 460 (200)
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: 335 (150)
Imperial Dropship: 1520 (400)
AMO Armageddon: 1415 (500)
AMO Golgotha: 1310 (350)
AMO Mars: 1920 (350)
Psy Titan: 885 (650)
Warlord hull: 770 (500)
Reaver hull: 695 (300)
Warhound hull: 645 (125)
2x Warhound hulls: 1285 (250)

_ Support Formations:
Heavy: 200 (250)
Tactical: 65 (150)
Mechanized Assault: 275 (225)
Mechanized Heavy: 350 (350)
Mechanized Tactical: 210 (275)

Chimera: 155 (100)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +85 (+50)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +30 (+50)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +45 (+50)
Chimedon: 240 (150)
Chimerax: 185 (150)
Chimerro: 200 (150)
Hellhound: 170 (150)
Hydra: 585 (300)
Leman Russ: 280 (250)
Sabre: 155 (100)

Basilisk: 885 (200)
Bombard: 1430 (200)
Griffon: 410 (200)
Manticore: 330 (200)

Marauder: 785 (350)
Thunderbolt: 680 (250)

Castellian: 695 (500)
Crusader: 750 (500)
Errant: 565 (250)
Lancer: 510 (300)
Paladin: 550 (300)
Warden: varies (250)
_ Mk1 or Mk3: 135 each
_ Mk2 (Multi-Launcher): 165 each

Stormblade: 365 (300)

Titan Legions List

_ Company Formations:
Imperator Titan: 7825 (2250)
Reaver Group (3 hulls): 2085 (900)
Warlord Group (3 hulls): 2305 (1500)

_ Support Formations:
Warlord hull: 960 (500)
Reaver hull: 870 (300)
Warhound hull: 805 (125)
2 Warhound hulls: 1610 (250)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:46 am 
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Oh, building that I found a few more models to add to the list in the 1st post. These all add the Command and HQ abilities to a normal model of their type.

Chimera, Command: 60.8
Leman Russ, Command: 111
Knight Errant, Command: 192
Knight Lancer, Command: 195
Knight Paladin, Command: 195


Also, as far as I can tell, the Adeptus Mechanicus does not hold to the Imperial Guard command rules. At least, there is nothing that I can find in their pdf that mentions it.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:59 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Oh, building that I found a few more models to add to the list in the 1st post. These all add the Command and HQ abilities to a normal model of their type.

Chimera, Command: 60.8
Leman Russ, Command: 111
Knight Errant, Command: 192
Knight Lancer, Command: 195
Knight Paladin, Command: 195


Also, as far as I can tell, the Adeptus Mechanicus does not hold to the Imperial Guard command rules. At least, there is nothing that I can find in their pdf that mentions it.


Hi!

I don't think they do either, so their cost would be slightly higher because of this.

You know Magnus the costs for titans are looking very similar to the ones in original AT. Cost were higher for titans (very durable). Given all the durability changes they have undergone I think it is very appropriate their costs have gone up. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:21 pm 
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The formation costs in the list above reflect not holding to the Guard command structure. This will be more apparent when I post the list for the Guard, which is who I'm finishing up on currently. Hopefully will be posted later this evening.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:49 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
The formation costs in the list above reflect not holding to the Guard command structure. This will be more apparent when I post the list for the Guard, which is who I'm finishing up on currently. Hopefully will be posted later this evening.


Hi!

Look forward to seeing that one (IG), very curious on how the artillery costs turn out). :)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 7:39 am 
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Oh, aaargh. In doing up the Guard I realized that I forgot to adjust the Chimera (and variants) save value for this list. This means all formations that include any Chimera (etc) are incorrect. I'll fix this ASAP.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 12:50 am 
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Whoops, forgot to adjust the 'to hit' on the Hellhound. Corrected entry:

Hellhound: 55.75 (50)

Also, Chimeras adjust to:

Chimedon: 36.5 (50)
Chimera: 36.5 (35)
Chimera, Command: 56.8
Chimerax: 44 (50)
Chimerro: 48.5 (50)

Formations affected adjust to:
_Company:
Mechanized: 595 (750)
Mechanized Assault: 800 (650)

_Support
Mechanized Assault: 265 (225)
Mechanized Heavy: 335 (350)
Mechanized Tactical: 195 (275)
Chimera: 140 (100)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +90 (+50)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +30 (+50)
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +45 (+50)
Chimedon: 230 (150)
Chimerax: 170 (150)
Chimerro: 185 (150)
Hellhound: 215 (150)

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:42 am 
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As per the proposed change to Transport costs, the following are new values:

[The entry for Chimedon in the post above was in error. It should have been 59 points.]

Chimedon: 55
Chimera: 32.5
Chimera, Command: 52.8
Chimerax: 40
Chimerro: 44.5
Imperial Dropship: 665
Imperator: 4609

In addition, adjusting Save Templates by -25% brings:
Imperial Dropship: 616
AMO Armegeddon: 769
AMO Golgotha: 718
AMO Mars: 1078
Warhound: 348
Reaver: 344
Warlord: 381
Imperator: 4061
Warlord Psy: 448

Adjusting Save value by -50% brings:
Imperial Dropship: 592
AMO Armegeddon: 733
AMO Golgotha: 688
AMO Mars: 1045
Warhound: 330
Reaver: 310
Warlord: 344
Imperator: 3788
Warlord Psy: 408

These numbers seem a bit better. While an Imperator may be under valued at 2250, nearly doubling that is just too high, especially as then the Company cost is nearly 8K! This may not be a lot better either. hmm

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:35 pm 
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hi!

I would not worry about the Imperator too much since embarked troops get to fire, which is rare amongst units with transport abilities (the mega gargant being the other).

Perhaps a cap, as suggested on the other thread for transport costs may be a solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:38 am 
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Also the Capitol Imperialis allows embarked troops to fire out, as noted by The Bissler. But yes, it is a very rare ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Points formula values for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:38 am 
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Sorry it's been so long since I put time into the conversions. Here is the Formations converted to Break Point of 100% as default:
______________

Standard Adeptus Mechanicus List: revised to BP 100%

_ Company Formations: calculated cost
Knight Paladin: 605
Knight Lancer: 570
Knight Errant: 615
Titan Defense: 100
Mechanized: 335
Mechanized Assault: 450
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +45
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +15
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +25
Leman Russ: 455
Stormblade: 515

_ Special Formations:
[Note: all Command Rhino replaced with Command Chimera. Formations with * may return to Command Rhino and save 20 points, while ones with ** may return and save 0 points. This is not a typo.]
Adeptus Mechanicus: 100*
Adeptus Psyker: 45**
Astropath: 45**
Forward Observer: 115*
Grey Knights: 255
Inquisitor: 155**
Knight Baron: 310
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: 160**
Imperial Dropship: 565
AMO Armageddon: 820
AMO Golgotha: 770
AMO Mars: 1170
Psy Titan: 455
Warlord hull: 385
Reaver hull: 345
Warhound hull: 370
2x Warhound hulls: 740

_ Support Formations:
Heavy: 115
Tactical: 40
Mechanized Assault: 155
Mechanized Heavy: 200
Mechanized Tactical: 115
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimedon: +50
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerax: +15
_ Upgrade 3 to Chimerro: +25

Chimera: 85
Chimedon: 145
Chimerax: 105
Chimerro: 115
Hellhound: 145
Hydra: 395
Leman Russ: 190
Sabre: 105

Basilisk: 600
Bombard: 965
Griffon: 275
Manticore: 225

Marauder: 530
Thunderbolt: 460

Castellian: 400
Crusader: 430
Errant: 320
Lancer: 290
Paladin: 315
Warden: varies
_ Mk1 or Mk3: 75 each
_ Mk2 (Multi-Launcher): 95 each

Stormblade: 285

Titan Legions List

_ Company Formations:
Imperator Titan: 5750
Reaver Group (3 hulls): 1170
Warlord Group (3 hulls): 1300

_ Support Formations:
Warlord hull: 480
Reaver hull: 435
Warhound hull: 460
2 Warhound hulls: 920

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