Hi!

Perhaps that is another dimension to be added to the formula? It's prospective use and the orders it requires. A weapon that can be used on any order is far more useful than one limited to one order (as in CC weapons). A steep cost discount could be given on that basis.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Interesting thoughts here. I'll let these percolate in my head for a bit and see what I can come up with.

I already have a modifier for ranged weapons for when the model is a Command unit or otherwise always fires on First Fire. Perhaps a similar, but reversed, modifier for Titan CC weapons would do.

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

I think that would be fine. I like having a cohesive formula that addresses these things. I would prefer to avoid "exceptions" to it. Another modifier for this would be appropriate.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Wow, sorry, I intended to get back to this some time ago, but just - didn't.

Anyway, I've gone and poked at the formulas a bit where they pertain to Titan Weapons that modify CAF. I think the solution is to remove the "Model Type" modifier (consisting of Pinning Class and Movement Restrictions) from the cost of Titan Weapon CAF modifiers. I am retaining the Move value and Move modifiers (subtracting one), so the exact model of Titan the weapon is attaching to still matters.

The adjusted values are as follows. I'll adjust the other races tweaked values in their own threads. As none of the CAF adjusting weapons are affected by either the Fire Control Center or the Command Head, I'm omitting those charts as those values are unchanged.

_ Titan Weapons basic cost: _ base _ dir _ tmplt _ rng _ CAF _ Final
Barrage Missile Launcher: ______ 240 _ 240 _ 120 _ 120 _ 240 _ 120
Carapace Landing Pad: ____________ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5
_ Recon Land Speeder: ___________ 25 __ 20 __ 25 __ 20 __ 30 __ 25
Carapace Multi-Lasers: ___________ 5 ___ 0 ___ 5 ___ 0 ___ 5 ___ 0 (1.26)
Cerberus AA Gun: _______________ 180 __ 45 _ 180 __ 45 _ 180 __ 45
Chain Fist, Warhound: ___________ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25 __ 45 __ 35
Chain Fist, Reaver: _____________ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25
Chain Fist, Warlord: ____________ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25 __ 30 __ 20
Corvus Assault Pod +see below: __ 15 __ 15 __ 15 __ 15 __ 15 __ 15
Devotional Bell: ________________ 70 __ 70 __ 70 __ 70 __ 70 __ 70
Doomburner: ____________________ 100 __ 25 _ 100 __ 25 _ 100 __ 25
Fire Control Center: 0 and alters cost of all other weapons, see below
Gatling Blaster: ________________ 65 __ 15 __ 65 __ 15 __ 65 __ 15
Harpoon Missile: _______________ 200 __ 50 _ 200 __ 50 _ 200 __ 50
Hellstrike Cannon: _____________ 100 _ 100 __ 50 __ 50 _ 100 __ 50
Inferno Gun: ____________________ 30 __ 30 __ 15 __ 15 __ 30 __ 15
Laser Blaster: __________________ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10
Laser Burner, old (1d6 hits): ___ 80 __ 20 __ 80 __ 20 __ 80 __ 20
Laser Burner, new (1 auto hit): _ 45 __ 10 __ 45 __ 10 __ 45 __ 10
Melta-Cannon: ___________________ 90 __ 20 __ 90 __ 20 __ 90 __ 20
Multiple Rocket Launcher: ______ 135 _ 135 __ 65 __ 65 _ 135 __ 65
Plasma Blastgun restricted: _____ 55 __ 15 __ 55 __ 15 __ 55 __ 15
Plasma Blastgun, self-powered: _ 110 __ 30 _ 110 __ 30 _ 110 __ 30
Plasma Cannon, restricted: _____ 150 __ 40 _ 150 __ 40 _ 150 __ 40
Plasma Cannon, self-powered: ___ 300 __ 75 _ 300 __ 75 _ 300 __ 75
Plasma Destructor, restricted: _ 155 __ 40 _ 155 __ 40 _ 155 __ 40
Plasma Destructor, self-power: _ 625 _ 155 _ 625 _ 155 _ 625 _ 155
Power Fist: _____________________ 20 ___ 5 __ 20 ___ 5 __ 20 ___ 5
Power Ram, Reaver: ______________ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25
Power Ram, Warlord: _____________ 35 __ 25 __ 35 __ 25 __ 30 __ 25
Quake Cannon: __________________ 360 _ 360 _ 180 _ 180 _ 360 _ 180
Trident: ________________________ 10 ___ 0 __ 10 ___ 0 __ 10 ___ 0 (2.1)
Turbo Laser Destructor: ________ 100 __ 25 _ 100 __ 25 _ 100 __ 25
Volcano Cannon: ________________ 280 __ 70 _ 280 __ 70 _ 280 __ 70
Vortex Missile: ________________ 325 _ 325 _ 160 _ 160 _ 325 _ 160
Vulcan Mega-Bolter: _____________ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10
Warp Missile: __________________ 120 __ 30 _ 120 __ 30 _ 120 __ 30
Wrecker: ________________________ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10 __ 35 __ 10
Close Combat Head, Reaver: ______ 10 __ 10 __ 10 __ 10 __ 10 __ 10
Close Combat Head, Warlord: _____ 10 __ 10 __ 10 __ 10 ___ 5 ___ 5
Command Head +see below: ________ 90 __ 90 __ 90 __ 90 __ 90 __ 90
Corvus Assault Head +see below: __ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5 ___ 5
Custodian Head: _________________ 45 __ 45 __ 20 __ 20 __ 45 __ 20
Deathstrike Cannon Head: ________ 70 __ 70 __ 15 __ 15 __ 70 __ 15
Weapon Head: _____________________ 0 __ -5 ___ 0 __ -5 ___ 0 __ -5 (-4.2)

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Hi!

Those look real good Magnus, I think you hit upon a good solution.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Hi. I'm new here and forgive me if this is the wrong place, but can we have "Trident" and all the other Titan Close Combat Weapons added to the main Tournament pack or w/e it's called? Army List Compendium, that's what it's called.

I'm a little confused as to whether or not to try to outfit my brand new titans with cool stuff or not as it's not in all the rules.

_________________
Looking for Aeronautica Imperialis, Epic 40K/Titanicus, Dark Future, Mordheim, Necromunda/Kill Team/ITEN/D-squads, BFG, in NoVA/DC area. http://miniwars.co.uk/players http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/play ... ted-States http://nearbygamers.com

I think you're confusing E:A with NetEpic. The Tournament Pack is for E:A. This thread is for NetEpic, which is based on SM2/TL.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

My mistake. I meant to say Army List Compendium. Post edited to fix it. And what is SM2/TL?

EDIT: Wait, what? Now you have me (the new guy) really confused. The below official NetEA page doesn't say that about the Tournament Pack:

http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/army-lists



Ok. I think I figured it out. This thread is for NetEpic, which is an earlier version of NetEA? I need to go to sleep.

_________________
Looking for Aeronautica Imperialis, Epic 40K/Titanicus, Dark Future, Mordheim, Necromunda/Kill Team/ITEN/D-squads, BFG, in NoVA/DC area. http://miniwars.co.uk/players http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/play ... ted-States http://nearbygamers.com

Hi!

E:A is the fourth edition of the epic rules.

Netepic is based on the second edition epic rules (space marine 2nd edition + Titan Legions).

While they share the same universe and background, the rules mechanics between the two are very different.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Thanks. What a mess. But I guess people have their preferences, even if it splits the player base even further.

_________________
Looking for Aeronautica Imperialis, Epic 40K/Titanicus, Dark Future, Mordheim, Necromunda/Kill Team/ITEN/D-squads, BFG, in NoVA/DC area. http://miniwars.co.uk/players http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/play ... ted-States http://nearbygamers.com

Not really, mate. The player base was never unified to begin with.

What I like is the fact that if I get the hankering I can play AT, NetEpic (Epic v2), Epic40k, and Epic Armageddon with the same models. Each game has a specific set of ideas that they stress. For example, AT is fantastic for super detailed, albeit somewhat fiddly and slower gameplay, titan and troop interactions. The levle of detail is just awesome. On the other end of the spectrum, Epic 40k probably is the most streamlined system for playing really massive battles quickly but at a much reduced level of detail. (all the above is somewhat subjective and not a statement of being "better")

That's a design feature, not a bug.

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Hi!

This.

Variety is the spice of life. Play what suits you. Be it one or all versions.

They are all EPIC!

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules

Back on topic though.

Updated values for tweaks and Transport revisions. I've added a couple of entries, and put the values for each weapon if the Titan has a Fire Control Center (FCC), Command Head (CmHd or CH), or both in the same chart so as to reduce the space this takes up. Most Titan Close Combat weapons are now very low cost, and a few Titan Weapons are actually free (cost 0).

All Imperial Titan weapons are priced as if part of a Support Formation. In other words, the weapons themselves receive no discount when being bought for a Titan purchased as part of a Company or Special formation.

_ Titan Weapons: _____________ Final _ CmHd _ FCC _ CH&FCC
Barrage Missile Launcher: ______ 120 __ 180 _ 240 ___ 365
Carapace Landing Pad: ____________ 5 [Transport 1: V (Recon Land Speeder)]
_ Recon Land Speeder: ___________ 25
Carapace Multi-Lasers: ___________ 0 ____ 0 ___ 0 _____ 0
Cerberus AA Gun: ________________ 45 ___ 45 __ 65 ____ 65
Chain Fist, Warhound: ___________ 35
Chain Fist, Reaver: _____________ 25
Chain Fist, Warlord: ____________ 20
Corvus Assault Pod, default: _____ 5 [Transport 4: B1/1] +cost of troops
Corvus Assault Pod, Detachment: _ 10 [Transport D: I1/1,B1/2] +cost of troops
Devotional Bell: ________________ 70
Doomburner: _____________________ 25 ___ 35 __ 50 ____ 75
Fire Control Center: _____________ 0 and alters cost of all other weapons
Gatling Blaster: ________________ 15 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 35
Harpoon Missile: ________________ 50 ___ 75 __ 50 ____ 75
Hellstrike Cannon: ______________ 50 ___ 75 __ 75 ___ 115
Inferno Gun: ____________________ 15 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 35
Laser Blaster: __________________ 10 ___ 15 __ 15 ____ 20
Laser Burner, old (1d6 hits): ___ 20
Laser Burner, new (1 auto hit): _ 10
Melta-Cannon: ___________________ 20 ___ 35 __ 45 ____ 65
Multiple Rocket Launcher: _______ 65 __ 100 _ 135 ___ 200
Plasma Blastgun restricted: _____ 15 ___ 20 __ 30 ____ 40
Plasma Blastgun, self-powered: __ 30 ___ 40 __ 55 ____ 85
Plasma Cannon, restricted: ______ 40 ___ 55 __ 55 ____ 85
Plasma Cannon, self-powered: ____ 75 __ 115 _ 115 ___ 170
Plasma Destructor, restricted: __ 40 ___ 60 __ 80 ___ 120
Plasma Destructor, self-power: _ 155 __ 235 _ 315 ___ 470
Power Fist: ______________________ 5
Power Ram, Reaver: ______________ 25
Power Ram, Warlord: _____________ 25
Quake Cannon: __________________ 180 __ 270 _ 360 ___ 540
Trident: _________________________ 0 ____ 5 ___ 5 _____ 5
Turbo Laser Destructor: _________ 25 ___ 40 __ 50 ____ 75
Volcano Cannon: _________________ 70 __ 105 _ 140 ___ 210
Vortex Missile: ________________ 160 __ 240 _ 160 ___ 240
Vulcan Mega-Bolter: _____________ 10 ___ 15 __ 15 ____ 20
Warp Missile: ___________________ 30 ___ 45 __ 30 ____ 45
Wrecker: ________________________ 10
Close Combat Head, Reaver: ______ 10
Close Combat Head, Warlord: ______ 5
Command Head +see below: ________ 90 & alters costs of all other weapons
Corvus Assault Head, default: ____ 0 (1.75)
Corvus Assault Head, Detachment: _ 5
Custodian Head: _________________ 20 ___ 20 __ 30 ____ 30
Deathstrike Cannon Head: ________ 15 ___ 15 __ 25 ____ 25
Weapon Head: ____________________ -5 ___ -5 __ -5 _____ 0

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Updated values for tweak2.

All Imperial Titan weapons are priced as if part of a Support Formation. In other words, the weapons themselves receive no discount when being bought for a Titan purchased as part of a Company or Special formation.

_ Titan Weapons: ____________ Final _ CmHd _ FCC _ CH&FCC
Barrage Missile Launcher: ______ 181 __ 272 _ 363 ___ 544
Carapace Landing Pad: ____________ 6 [Transport 1: V (Recon Land Speeder)]
_ Recon Land Speeder: ___________ 26
Carapace Multi-Lasers: ___________ 3 ____ 3 ___ 4 _____ 4
Cerberus AA Gun: ________________ 90 ___ 90 _ 134 ___ 134
Chain Fist, Warhound: ___________ 38
Chain Fist, Reaver: _____________ 28
Chain Fist, Warlord: ____________ 23
Corvus Assault Pod, default: _____ 7 [Transport 4: B1/1] +cost of troops
Corvus Assault Pod, Detachment: _ 11 [Transport D: I1/1,B1/2] +cost of troops
Devotional Bell: ________________ 70
Doomburner: _____________________ 50 ___ 76 _ 101 ___ 151
Fire Control Center: _____________ 0 and alters cost of all other weapons
Gatling Blaster: ________________ 34 ___ 50 __ 50 ____ 76
Harpoon Missile: _______________ 101 __ 151 _ 101 ___ 151
Hellstrike Cannon: ______________ 76 ___113 _ 113 ___ 170
Inferno Gun: ____________________ 24 ___ 35 __ 35 ____ 53
Laser Blaster: __________________ 17 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 38
Laser Burner, old (1d6 hits): ___ 39
Laser Burner, new (1 auto hit): _ 22
Melta-Cannon: ___________________ 45 ___ 67 __ 90 ___ 134
Multiple Rocket Launcher: ______ 202 __ 302 _ 403 ___ 605
Plasma Blastgun restricted: _____ 28 ___ 42 __ 56 ____ 84
Plasma Blastgun, self-powered: __ 56 ___ 84 _ 112 ____168
Plasma Cannon, restricted: ______ 76 __ 113 _ 113 ___ 170
Plasma Cannon, self-powered: ___ 151 __ 227 _ 227 ___ 340
Plasma Destructor, restricted: __ 78 __ 118 _ 157 ___ 235
Plasma Destructor, self-power: _ 314 __ 470 _ 627 ___ 941
Power Fist: _____________________ 11
Power Ram, Reaver: ______________ 29
Power Ram, Warlord: _____________ 26
Quake Cannon: __________________ 269 __ 403 _ 538 ___ 806
Trident: _________________________ 4 ____ 6 ___ 8 ____ 13
Turbo Laser Destructor: _________ 50 ___ 76 _ 101 ___ 151
Volcano Cannon: ________________ 140 __ 210 _ 280 ___ 420
Vortex Missile: ________________ 242 __ 363 _ 242 ___ 363
Vulcan Mega-Bolter: _____________ 17 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 38
Warp Missile: ___________________ 60 ___ 91 __ 60 ____ 91
Wrecker: ________________________ 18
Close Combat Head, Reaver: ______ 13
Close Combat Head, Warlord: ______ 8
Command Head +see below: ________ 92 & alters costs of all other weapons
Corvus Assault Head, default: ____ 3
Corvus Assault Head, Detachment: _ 6
Custodian Head: _________________ 34 ___ na __ 50
Deathstrike Cannon Head: ________ 42 ___ na __ 84
Weapon Head: ____________________ -1 ___ na ___ 1

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator

Updated for Tweak3, only minor changes here.
___

All Imperial Titan weapons are priced as if part of a Support Formation. In other words, the weapons themselves receive no discount when being bought for a Titan purchased as part of a Company or Special formation.

_ Titan Weapons: ____________ Final _ CmHd _ FCC _ CH&FCC
Barrage Missile Launcher: ______ 181 __ 272 _ 363 ___ 544
Carapace Landing Pad: ____________ 6 [Transport 1: V (Recon Land Speeder)]
_ Recon Land Speeder: ___________ 81
Carapace Multi-Lasers: ___________ 3 ____ 3 ___ 4 _____ 4
Cerberus AA Gun: ________________ 90 ___ 90 _ 134 ___ 134
Chain Fist, Warhound: ___________ 38
Chain Fist, Reaver: _____________ 28
Chain Fist, Warlord: ____________ 23
Corvus Assault Pod, default: _____ 7 [Transport 4: B1/1] +cost of troops
Corvus Assault Pod, Detachment: _ 11 [Transport D: I1/1,B1/2] +cost of troops
Devotional Bell: ________________ 70
Doomburner: _____________________ 50 ___ 76 _ 101 ___ 151
Fire Control Center: _____________ 0 and alters cost of all other weapons
Gatling Blaster: ________________ 34 ___ 50 __ 50 ____ 76
Harpoon Missile: _______________ 101 __ 151 _ 101 ___ 151
Hellstrike Cannon: ______________ 76 ___113 _ 113 ___ 170
Inferno Gun: ____________________ 24 ___ 35 __ 35 ____ 53
Laser Blaster: __________________ 17 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 38
Laser Burner, old (1d6 hits): ___ 39
Laser Burner, new (1 auto hit): _ 22
Melta-Cannon: ___________________ 45 ___ 67 __ 90 ___ 134
Multiple Rocket Launcher: ______ 202 __ 302 _ 403 ___ 605
Plasma Blastgun restricted: _____ 28 ___ 42 __ 56 ____ 84
Plasma Blastgun, self-powered: __ 56 ___ 84 _ 112 ____168
Plasma Cannon, restricted: ______ 76 __ 113 _ 113 ___ 170
Plasma Cannon, self-powered: ___ 151 __ 227 _ 227 ___ 340
Plasma Destructor, restricted: __ 78 __ 118 _ 157 ___ 235
Plasma Destructor, self-power: _ 314 __ 470 _ 627 ___ 941
Power Fist: _____________________ 11
Power Ram, Reaver: ______________ 29
Power Ram, Warlord: _____________ 26
Quake Cannon: __________________ 269 __ 403 _ 538 ___ 806
Trident: _________________________ 4 ____ 6 ___ 8 ____ 13
Turbo Laser Destructor: _________ 50 ___ 76 _ 101 ___ 151
Volcano Cannon: ________________ 140 __ 210 _ 280 ___ 420
Vortex Missile: ________________ 242 __ 363 _ 242 ___ 363
Vulcan Mega-Bolter: _____________ 17 ___ 25 __ 25 ____ 38
Warp Missile: ___________________ 60 ___ 91 __ 60 ____ 91
Wrecker: ________________________ 18
Close Combat Head, Reaver: ______ 13
Close Combat Head, Warlord: ______ 8
Command Head +see below: ________ 50 & alters costs of all other weapons
Corvus Assault Head, default: ____ 3
Corvus Assault Head, Detachment: _ 6
Custodian Head: _________________ 34 ___ na __ 50
Deathstrike Cannon Head: ________ 73.5 _ na _ 147
Weapon Head: ____________________ -1 ___ na ___ 1

_________________
Net Epic Coordinator