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Gold Summary for Titan Legions

 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:42 am 
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Just put a blanket ban on Warhound Titans being given 2CC weapons?

An alternative method would be to enforce a minimum spend on weaponry for a Titan, which in practical terms would make it impossible for Warhounds to dual wield. It's because of the Warhounds' speed and relatively cheap cost that this is a problem. I would be less concerned by a Warlord dual wielding. The Reaver slightly more, although you only get one model for the relative cost of two Warhounds so that probably isn't a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:27 pm 
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Wholly against the whole quake cannons and CC weapons on warhounds. I know some people have modelled their hounds in such away, but that is massively against the spirit of what they are meant to accomplish. Stop them having access to those options and move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:23 pm 
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Hi!

If I recall, the issue of weapons was to be left to the individual groups as defined by three levels:

1. Free form- anything goes

2. The current net epic gold list

3. AT1 era restrictions (warhounds are only limited to about 5 weapons, no close combat, etc, Reaver have slightly better weapons load out, only warlords can use everything).

People can choose what their particular groups favors. The baseline (default) will be number 3, which corresponds to the original weapons permitted under AT, where warlords are the only hull without restrictions. Wahounds, defined as scout titans only got to use: turbo laser, plasma blastgun, vulcan mega-bolter, inferno cannon and multilauncher. Reaver got the same as warhounds adding power fist and chain fist, carapace mounted one shot missiles. Everything was allowed only on warlord hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:07 am 
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Why no warmonger?

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:44 pm 
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hydroblender wrote:
Why no warmonger?


Hi!

For some strange reason it fell through the cracks.

I'll remedy this. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:56 pm 
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I'm sorry to insist but with free CC weapons modification for Gold, we MUST change access to CC weapons on warhounds.

I'm just impossible to have a 125 points warhound with XD6+8 in CC...

I agree with Mattman on this point, remove access to CC weapons for warhounds would be the easier solution (and also no Quake Cannons for them).


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:25 pm 
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scream wrote:
I'm sorry to insist but with free CC weapons modification for Gold, we MUST change access to CC weapons on warhounds.

I'm just impossible to have a 125 points warhound with XD6+8 in CC...

I agree with Mattman on this point, remove access to CC weapons for warhounds would be the easier solution (and also no Quake Cannons for them).


Hi!

I would agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Just to nitpik a little, in Platinum the base cost of a Warhound is much higher. Specifically 385 as a Special formation or 460 as a Support (for Titan Legions). This applies to Gold for those persons using the Alternate Points Cost system.

Similarly, while not quite being free, the CC weapons have low costs each, specifically:
Chain Fist: 20
Laser Burner, old rules: 10
Laser Burner, new rules: 5
Power Fist/Battle Claw: 20
Power Ram: 25
Wrecker: 35

IMHO, the options for individual groups to decide on their Titan weapons' restrictions must remain. If one option is labeled as the default, that is fine, but flat removing CC access from Warhound Titans is unacceptable. I have one or more Warhound Titans built with (one) Chain Fist, and I am NOT remodeling them just because certain people don't like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:48 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Just to nitpik a little, in Platinum the base cost of a Warhound is much higher. Specifically 385 as a Special formation or 460 as a Support (for Titan Legions). This applies to Gold for those persons using the Alternate Points Cost system.

Similarly, while not quite being free, the CC weapons have low costs each, specifically:
Chain Fist: 20
Laser Burner, old rules: 10
Laser Burner, new rules: 5
Power Fist/Battle Claw: 20
Power Ram: 25
Wrecker: 35

IMHO, the options for individual groups to decide on their Titan weapons' restrictions must remain. If one option is labeled as the default, that is fine, but flat removing CC access from Warhound Titans is unacceptable. I have one or more Warhound Titans built with (one) Chain Fist, and I am NOT remodeling them just because certain people don't like that.


Hi!

If I recall the discussion on this what was decided is that the "default" would be the very strict AT era weapons restrictions.

HOWEVER, two more options would be included. One being free selection (anything goes), and the second being the one that currently exists in gold.

Thus, the 3 alternatives would cover all tastes and individual groups can decide which to use.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:22 am 
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That is exactly what I am in favor of. Having options.

That said, I just thought of an alternative to prevent Warhounds ever getting free CC weapons that I would be fine with. If we state that ONLY Warlords get CC weapons for free, that could work. Possibly even that Warlords get them free, Reaver pays normal price, and Warhound pays double.


I also looked though my 1st edition Adeptus Titanicus and Codex Titanicus, and my interpretation is that Warhounds were able to use all 3 CC weapons. On page 24 of Codex Titanicus, the chart shows that each Warhound arm hard point may hold a grade 2 heavy weapon. Later on that same page, it says "Close combat weapons are always grade 2 heavy weapons." I also find it interesting that the weapon restrictions vary between the left and right arms. Thus my "strict reading" of 1st edition allows Warhounds to use the following weapons (using the modern names).
Right arm only: Laser Blaster, Multiple Rocket launcher.
Either arm: Gatling Blaster, Melta Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Chain Fist, Laser Burner, Power Fist.

The Inferno Gun, Plasma Blastgun, Turbo-Laser Destructor, and Vulcan Mega-Bolter were not described in either 1st edition book that I can see. While they may have been in some WD article, they also might not have shown up until 2nd edition. Thus holding Warhounds to a "strict reading" of 1st edition weapons restrictions is really not a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:48 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
That is exactly what I am in favor of. Having options.

That said, I just thought of an alternative to prevent Warhounds ever getting free CC weapons that I would be fine with. If we state that ONLY Warlords get CC weapons for free, that could work. Possibly even that Warlords get them free, Reaver pays normal price, and Warhound pays double.


I also looked though my 1st edition Adeptus Titanicus and Codex Titanicus, and my interpretation is that Warhounds were able to use all 3 CC weapons. On page 24 of Codex Titanicus, the chart shows that each Warhound arm hard point may hold a grade 2 heavy weapon. Later on that same page, it says "Close combat weapons are always grade 2 heavy weapons." I also find it interesting that the weapon restrictions vary between the left and right arms. Thus my "strict reading" of 1st edition allows Warhounds to use the following weapons (using the modern names).
Right arm only: Laser Blaster, Multiple Rocket launcher.
Either arm: Gatling Blaster, Melta Cannon, Plasma Cannon, Chain Fist, Laser Burner, Power Fist.

The Inferno Gun, Plasma Blastgun, Turbo-Laser Destructor, and Vulcan Mega-Bolter were not described in either 1st edition book that I can see. While they may have been in some WD article, they also might not have shown up until 2nd edition. Thus holding Warhounds to a "strict reading" of 1st edition weapons restrictions is really not a good idea.


Hi!

I like your idea of charging more for close combat weapons as the titan size goes down.

I think it is a great idea that addresses those issues. What to have a warhound with close combat weapons? Pay x3 for them.

If no one objects, I'd like Magnus to make those changes as a default rule (people of course may choose to ignore them depending on their groups style).

Perhaps then only two options need be given then:

1. Free-form - do whatever you want.
2. Magnus's point adjusted values

I think that covers most likes and tastes.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:07 pm 
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Are the multilasers and the cerberus the same thing now? Or do multilasers now cost 100pts (up friom 10
)?

Also, I can't now see any reason to take gatling blssters, ever. The Turbo Laser Destructor has the same range, averages the same number of hits but has a better TSM, now for the same points.


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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:35 pm 
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Riquende wrote:
Are the multilasers and the cerberus the same thing now? Or do multilasers now cost 100pts (up friom 10
)?

Also, I can't now see any reason to take gatling blssters, ever. The Turbo Laser Destructor has the same range, averages the same number of hits but has a better TSM, now for the same points.


Hi!

They are not the same.

The cerebus has AA capability and thus cost a lot more (as well as having increased range). The carapace multi-lasers have shorter range and no AA capability.

I agree about the gatling blasters.

In the old days they were the weapon of choice for stripping shields and engaging lightly armored elements, but the advent of more weapons made it obsolete.

I have thought of making one or two changes to make it distinct.

A. Increase attack die to 6 (or even as high as 8)

Or

B. Let it use the special die that grants anything from 2 attack dice to 10 (2,4,6,8,10).

Cost remains the same (under gold that is platinum is a different story).

Thoughts?

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:24 am 
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primarch wrote:
I agree about the gatling blasters.

In the old days they were the weapon of choice for stripping shields and engaging lightly armored elements, but the advent of more weapons made it obsolete.

I have thought of making one or two changes to make it distinct.

A. Increase attack die to 6 (or even as high as 8)

Or

B. Let it use the special die that grants anything from 2 attack dice to 10 (2,4,6,8,10).

Cost remains the same (under gold that is platinum is a different story).

Thoughts?

Primarch

I say increase the hit dice to something non-random.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:23 am 
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Hi!

Would an increase to 6 attack dice make it sufficiently viable? Or is an increase to 8 needed?

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