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Gold Summary for Space Marines

 Post subject: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Hi!

This would be the list of changes to be updated in Gold as extracted from the thread on marines.

1. Marine HQ CAF bonus: +1 over the CAF of the troop type they lead.

2. Battle Company Cost reduced to 800 (formally 850)

3. Veteran Company Cost increased to 950 and detachment to 350. Veterans now have a -1 save modifier.

4. All Dreadnaught types gain Elite and PD(1). Variable weapon load-outs included.

5. Typhoon and Tornado formations are 5 models for 200. Break point is 3.

6. Razorbacks. They replace rhinos in detachment. Cost 150 points for 6 razorbacks. Add +3 to break point and +2 to VP. If the detachment has no rhinos to replace then cost is 200. Break point +3, VP +2.

7. Librarian. Powers are now: Purge (combination of purge psyker and destroy deamon). Mind Blast (unchanged) and Force Dome (this was the most favored power)

8. Land raider Helios support formation cost reduced to 350.

9. Special characters may opt for either the rhino transport OR the jump pack ability (no rhino)

10. Drop Pods. Replace rhinos. Break point unchanged. Company only. Cost 150 points. +2 VP.

Everything Else discussed are things for the Platinum version.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:02 pm 
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To point five add: Change Break Point to 3.

Point 9. Are you removing the option for Special characters to be mounted on whatever type matches the company they are attached to, or is this an expansion to that? See NetEpicGoldCoreRules PDF page 27, lower right hand corner: "Optional Rule: Special Cards for Cavalry Companies". Similarly, for Gold, why would gaining Jump Packs remove the Rhino? Assault troops have and use Rhinos in Gold, so why not Special Characters? Unless you are saying that that option should be changed so that whatever the character's movement changes to, they lose the Rhino.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
To point five add: Change Break Point to 3.

Point 9. Are you removing the option for Special characters to be mounted on whatever type matches the company they are attached to, or is this an expansion to that? See NetEpicGoldCoreRules PDF page 27, lower right hand corner: "Optional Rule: Special Cards for Cavalry Companies". Similarly, for Gold, why would gaining Jump Packs remove the Rhino? Assault troops have and use Rhinos in Gold, so why not Special Characters? Unless you are saying that that option should be changed so that whatever the character's movement changes to, they lose the Rhino.


Hi!

On number 9, it seems people (myself included) weren't clear this was already there in some form. Deleted.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:05 am 
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Gotcha, it happens. Actually, it might be a good idea to edit that Optional rule to actually state that any change (other than perhaps to Jump Packs) causes the loss of the Rhino, as it would then be redundant.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:01 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Gotcha, it happens. Actually, it might be a good idea to edit that Optional rule to actually state that any change (other than perhaps to Jump Packs) causes the loss of the Rhino, as it would then be redundant.


Hi!

Agreed. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:52 am 
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With regards to 4, of all the stats that didn't make sense in the marine list, the armament of the dreadnoughts was the worst. If we incorporate those, then everything else should be fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:39 am 
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I found the post were I agreed to increasing the CAF of the HQ units, but can't find or remember why we said we were going to increase the normal HQ to +4? Vet HQ to +5 and Chaptermaster to +6, yes. But can't recall why we said the normal HQ and the assault HQ should both be +4. If anything they should just increase by +1 over each other, like their troop variants (hopefully I am not contradicting an earlier post from myself ::) ) so HQ +3, Assault HQ +4, Vet HQ +5, Chaptermaster +6, Term HQ +7.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
I found the post were I agreed to increasing the CAF of the HQ units, but can't find or remember why we said we were going to increase the normal HQ to +4? Vet HQ to +5 and Chaptermaster to +6, yes. But can't recall why we said the normal HQ and the assault HQ should both be +4. If anything they should just increase by +1 over each other, like their troop variants (hopefully I am not contradicting an earlier post from myself ::) ) so HQ +3, Assault HQ +4, Vet HQ +5, Chaptermaster +6, Term HQ +7.

Matt


Hi!

This makes sense and is easier to remember. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:00 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
With regards to 4, of all the stats that didn't make sense in the marine list, the armament of the dreadnoughts was the worst. If we incorporate those, then everything else should be fine.

Matt


Hi!

I wasn't sure whether to leave that to Platinum and add the minimal stuff I listed for Gold or list the full changes for gold.

I'm thinking I'd prefer to leave it for platinum and include costs for the all the added platinum stuff in an addenda to Gold later.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:07 pm 
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For that matter, an Assault Marine Veteran is CAF +5, so why is the Assault HQ just +4? Or are we not worried about that because it's from a specific Chapter?

Whoops, I missed that about point 4. I agree that the altered stats/weapon loadouts for Dreads should be included, and am already using them for points cost calculations. Even if they are not included as baseline, they should be in the 'Options' book.

The only thing that came to me about that is that perhaps 'Venerable' should not be a specific unit, but rather an ability that can be added to any Dreadnought to make it Venerable.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:56 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
For that matter, an Assault Marine Veteran is CAF +5, so why is the Assault HQ just +4? Or are we not worried about that because it's from a specific Chapter?

Whoops, I missed that about point 4. I agree that the altered stats/weapon loadouts for Dreads should be included, and am already using them for points cost calculations. Even if they are not included as baseline, they should be in the 'Options' book.

The only thing that came to me about that is that perhaps 'Venerable' should not be a specific unit, but rather an ability that can be added to any Dreadnought to make it Venerable.


Hi!

Okay, will include the dreadnought weapons load-out.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:59 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
For that matter, an Assault Marine Veteran is CAF +5, so why is the Assault HQ just +4? Or are we not worried about that because it's from a specific Chapter?


I think they are restricted to blood angels, so wouldn't worry about it, though they will appear in Platinum for everyone as Vanguard Vets. ;D

MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Whoops, I missed that about point 4. I agree that the altered stats/weapon loadouts for Dreads should be included, and am already using them for points cost calculations. Even if they are not included as baseline, they should be in the 'Options' book.

The only thing that came to me about that is that perhaps 'Venerable' should not be a specific unit, but rather an ability that can be added to any Dreadnought to make it Venerable.


We should at least make the stats match up with the weapon load outs that the models actually come with.

I like the idea of Venerable being an upgrade option, keep it as is for now, but it is going straight in the Platinum list. ;D I was thinking that doing a Venerable version of each normal dread would just add to many entries but this solves that.

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:24 pm 
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The Land Raider company is showing as being worth 8VPs in the Space Marines book yet only costs 700 points. I'm assuming this is a typo and should be changed to 7VPs?

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:02 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
The Land Raider company is showing as being worth 8VPs in the Space Marines book yet only costs 700 points. I'm assuming this is a typo and should be changed to 7VPs?


Hi!

Correct, typo.

It used to be 750, price changed, but VP were not corrected.

Thanks for pointing it out!

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 Post subject: Re: Gold Summary for Space Marines
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Thanks Primarch! ;)

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