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Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)

 Post subject: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Hi!

This thread is for posting on anything related to the revision of the Adeptus Mechanicus (titans) Book.

Those whom wish to supervise this list, please state so in your post and compile an editable document of the changes that are posted.

Thank you!

Primarch


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:58 am 
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I'll take a look at AdMech for typos and ambiguity. The last time a read it I don't recall seeing anything glaring, but it has been a few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:14 am 
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One comment from one of the guys from my group:

"The points costs of titans. Stop being lazy and rounding the points values and make the weapons appropriately costed."

Exactly as he wrote it ;D
I suspect his comment was more geared towards Eldar as that is what he plays, but it is applicable across all titans with separate costings of weapons.
Rounding of points has been raised previously and I support getting rid of it, and I agree that some of the weapon points need "adjusting" for the current rules (like Destructor's).

When the new "optional" titan rules are released I would also guess the points costs would be slightly different again, to take into account of the weapons working under the new system.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Would you mind linking to where the discussion on 'rounding of points values' happened, as I am unsure of what you are referring to.

For that matter, your friend seems to have some ideas as to what various weapons "should" cost. If he(?) could make a list for you to post, that could help.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:08 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Would you mind linking to where the discussion on 'rounding of points values' happened, as I am unsure of what you are referring to.

For that matter, your friend seems to have some ideas as to what various weapons "should" cost. If he(?) could make a list for you to post, that could help.


Hi!

He's probably referring to the old revision where this came up (on the net epic yahoo mailing list).

I never liked it much. But people like the 50/100 point cutoffs (rounding to those values) for VP's .

I agree, whatever list of revised weapon costs should be posted if there is one.

Primarch


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:59 pm 
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@Mattman: Are you using the Net Epic Gold rulebooks? There are some 50/100 point weapons but there's plenty of ones that don't for both Imperial and Eldar Titans. To be honest, I'm one of those players Primarch mentioned. It's a pain in the arse not having rounded numbers and has meant both myself & my opponent have ended up going up to 45 points over the limit for our armies quite a few times.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:04 am 
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Given that there are a number of units in game with a cost ending in 25 oor 75pts, I don't see why it would be difficult to round all weapons to 25/50/75/100 pts. If there are any that seem wrong compared to another then give it a small boost to compensate (slight range increase, 1 extra attack die, so on).

I'm just starting building some titan lists and what I've found is that I'm getting 'free' head upgrades because my weapon choices come to just over 800, and a weapon/CC head doesn't take me over 850.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:32 am 
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The Bissler wrote:
@Mattman: Are you using the Net Epic Gold rulebooks?


I am using the Gold books, why? It is the rules for rounding the titan costs and some of the weapon costs in those books that me and my friends have some issues with.

MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Would you mind linking to where the discussion on 'rounding of points values' happened, as I am unsure of what you are referring to.

For that matter, your friend seems to have some ideas as to what various weapons "should" cost. If he(?) could make a list for you to post, that could help.


For reference, this is the topic where I brought up the point originally regarding rounding:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24416

As Primarch mentions in it, the decisions behind it where some years ago and I guess would be lost in the discussion group somewhere.

I will see what his thoughts are.
For me it is the big plasma weapons that stand out. Under the current rules they are high cost with additional negative rules, it should be one or the other really.

Rather than the blanket "may not fire any other weapons" rule that the Cannon and Destructor have, maybe the power drain could chosen to be taken from elsewhere, something that is a nod to the uncoming plasma rules, but wouldn't take much to implement. Something along the lines of:

If this titan chooses to fire a Plasma weapon (Cannon or Destructor) this turn, then the crew must syphon plasma from other systems to power it. Choose for the titan to fire "Offensively" or "Defensively" and apply the following rules.

Offensively
On the turn that this plasma weapon is fired, the titan may not repair any void shields or repair any damage. Other weapons may be fired as normal.

Defensively
On the turn that this plasma weapon is fired, the titan may not fire any other weapons. Rolling for repairs and void shields may be made as normal.

Just throwing it out as a possible idea.

One of the other weapons that jumps out for me is the Inferno Gun at 50pts, would much rather have a Vulcan Mega Bolter.

Riquende wrote:
Given that there are a number of units in game with a cost ending in 25 oor 75pts, I don't see why it would be difficult to round all weapons to 25/50/75/100 pts. If there are any that seem wrong compared to another then give it a small boost to compensate (slight range increase, 1 extra attack die, so on).

I'm just starting building some titan lists and what I've found is that I'm getting 'free' head upgrades because my weapon choices come to just over 800, and a weapon/CC head doesn't take me over 850.


That is something I mentioned in the topic I linked to above. I would much rather have everything costed to the nearest 25pts and a straight cost for titans.

Regards,

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Ah, somehow I missed that rule on rounding when I was skimming through that section in the Core Rules pdf. Oddly, it is not referenced at all (that I could find) in the Adeptus Mechanicus codex.

I'm going to agree that the rounding of point cost for specific Titans should be removed. Why have such specific point costs for the weapons if it just gets adjusted for no apparent reason later? Also, if the Point Cost system that Primarch is proposing does get developed, these weapon point costs should also be looked at to determine if they are balanced.

That linked thread had a lot of good ideas in it, even beyond point costs. Some of those should probably be looked at.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:34 pm 
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I think I found our next Praetorian. Note that the 'treads' are Baneblade hulls.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/08/empe ... f-one.html

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:39 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I think I found our next Praetorian. Note that the 'treads' are Baneblade hulls.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/08/empe ... f-one.html


Hi!

WOW! ;D

Primarch


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:48 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I think I found our next Praetorian. Note that the 'treads' are Baneblade hulls.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/08/empe ... f-one.html

Sweet!

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:18 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Ah, somehow I missed that rule on rounding when I was skimming through that section in the Core Rules pdf. Oddly, it is not referenced at all (that I could find) in the Adeptus Mechanicus codex.

I'm going to agree that the rounding of point cost for specific Titans should be removed. Why have such specific point costs for the weapons if it just gets adjusted for no apparent reason later? Also, if the Point Cost system that Primarch is proposing does get developed, these weapon point costs should also be looked at to determine if they are balanced.


Apologies to Mattman, I completely forgot about this rule in the core rules as well. I've been playing without roundings since I started playing NetEpic. Strangely this means I am on the other side of the fence so far as this discussion goes. It's a pain in the arse when you have an oddly costed Titan because there is little you can do to make up the points you have left to spend (though there is the occasional unit that has a weird cost).

I'd rather everything was a multiple of 50 points but I'm in the minority here and don't feel strongly enough about it to go against the wishes of the group!

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:20 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I think I found our next Praetorian. Note that the 'treads' are Baneblade hulls.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2013/08/empe ... f-one.html


I think that is more a Warlord class tank, looks like it only has 4 titan weapons ;)

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: TItan Legions (Mechanicus)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:37 am 
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The Bissler wrote:
Apologies to Mattman, I completely forgot about this rule in the core rules as well. I've been playing without roundings since I started playing NetEpic. Strangely this means I am on the other side of the fence so far as this discussion goes. It's a pain in the arse when you have an oddly costed Titan because there is little you can do to make up the points you have left to spend (though there is the occasional unit that has a weird cost).

I'd rather everything was a multiple of 50 points but I'm in the minority here and don't feel strongly enough about it to go against the wishes of the group!


No need to apologise. The first time I played NetEpic I missed the rounding rule, I only picked it up after re-reading the rules. The odd costed weapons do make things a little awkward, but one solution would be to adjust the costs so everything is pointed to the nearest 25 pts. Some new units have been costed to the nearest 25, so why not titan weapons?

Matt


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