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Army List: Tau

 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Not sure if they need to be a special card, other knights aren't. We just need to make sure a squad of 3 is costed correctly. Any way, are we meant to be adding new units to the current list at this stage or is this something for the expansion book?


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Mattman wrote:
Not sure if they need to be a special card, other knights aren't. We just need to make sure a squad of 3 is costed correctly. Any way, are we meant to be adding new units to the current list at this stage or is this something for the expansion book?


Hi!

We can add units. I'll either stick them in an extra book or just expand the current ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:23 pm 
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I like the idea of adding units to some armies like Tau that don't have the history and diversity that some of the other armies do, but I am fine waiting a little bit until to do so until we're ready to tackle a project like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:53 pm 
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ForgottenLore wrote:
I like the idea of adding units to some armies like Tau that don't have the history and diversity that some of the other armies do, but I am fine waiting a little bit until to do so until we're ready to tackle a project like that.


Hi!

No need to wait. Stat them up and post them and they'll be discussed.

I want things on this thread, so they can be easily retrieved. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:28 am 
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Ahhh,

What a weak soul I am.

I fell in love with those Heavy Gears, and just ordered me a batch of these:

http://store.dp9.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_82&product_id=165

In addidion they have a nice bits selection where I found some nice weapons and shields...

Guess my Tau is getting som knights in their armoury...

Nils


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:57 pm 
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@ringo wrote:
Ahhh,

What a weak soul I am.

I fell in love with those Heavy Gears, and just ordered me a batch of these:

http://store.dp9.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_82&product_id=165

In addidion they have a nice bits selection where I found some nice weapons and shields...

Guess my Tau is getting som knights in their armoury...

Nils


Hi!

Having had some in the past, they are great models!

All we need now are stats. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Almost tempted to sell my knights and replace them with gear models :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:42 pm 
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primarch wrote:
All we need now are stats. ;)
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Well, hey. I haven't yet played a game but I'll take a swing at it just to get the ball rolling.

Riptide Battlesuit

Move - 20cm
Save - 4+/6+f
CAF - +3 (difficult, its a monstrous creature in 40k, which means really good in H2H, but Tau are supposed to suck at it)
Elite, Jump Pack, Special

2 possible weapon load outs

Heavy Burst Cannon - 60cm - 5 AD - 3+ 2H - 0TSM
Smart Missiles - 50cm - 1AD - 3+ 2H - 0TSM

or

Ion Accelerator - 75cm - 3AD - 3+ 2H - -2TSM
Plasma Rifles - 50cm - 1AD - 3+ 2H - -2TSM

No idea how to handle the nova-charge reactor (maybe just pick 1 of 3 abilities each turn, like a psyker?) or point costs for a detachment of 3

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Hepp,

I think a move of 20cm is spot on. Given that they have jet packs they would be able to move more directly across the battlefield than for instance imperial knights in effect making them somewhat quicker. It would also fit the semi fast nature lf the TAU army.

As for armour save I think a double save is the way to go. First a fixed shield save, failing that, a normal armoursave. For instance fixed 5+ and then 2+ or 3+.

The Riptides weapon and balisticskills in wh40k are mediocre at best. So its combat abilities should be average. Then again we dont want to create something that can be easily assaulted and killed by cheap infantry. Correct CAF seems difficult to estimate.

As for the weapon loadout seems line the accelerator has extreme range and good armour piercing abilities, wheter fired normaly or as a template weapon. The heavy burst cannon has a high rate of fire, but poor ap. So I think yor suggestions are close,. However the to hit should probably not be more than 5+.

Nils


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Most of the stats I used are really just copy and pasted from other stuff in the list. I just noticed, however, that there was already a heavy burst cannon on one of the hammerhead variants, so we should probably use those stats instead of the ones I made up. So

Heavy Burst Cannon - 50cm - 6 AD - 3+ 2H - 0TSM

As for the to-hit numbers, the Riptide is basically just a really big crisis suit. One crisis suit version hits on a 4+, the other on a 3+. Assuming that the bigger, more expensive suit would have a more skilled pilot and more integrated support systems, I went with the better number. I could certainly see an argument for making it a 4+ though. Even basic Fire Warriors hit on a 4+ though, so I can't see making it any worse than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:50 am 
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Having actually had a look through the tau net epic book and the new codex I don't see the rip tide having a better than 4+ to hit for its weapons. It ties in with the other suits. In fact, most tau are worse shots than marines, they just have a little extra tech to help them out.
Though the mark 2 crisis suit has me a little bewildered. Not sure why it gets to shoot at 3+ and why its flamer should do anything more than normal.

Also not sure why the broadside needs to have 2 shots. If it is reference to being twin linked then I am not sure if that is right (referencing an earlier conversation if that is the precedence then land raiders should have 4 shots, dreadnoughts with las cannons should have 2 etc ).

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:15 am 
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The mark 2 crisis suit surprised me a bit as well, but I used that as the reason for the RT's 3+ to-hit. It is entirely possible that that is a typo, however and it should be 4+. We would have to ask whoever first worked on those rules though. If that suit is actually supposed to be 4+ then definitely so should the RT. I cannot see the RT being a worse shot than Fire Warriors though. It is, after all, supposed to be an elite, highly skilled fire warrior piloting the thing after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:52 am 
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Mattman wrote:
Having actually had a look through the tau net epic book and the new codex I don't see the rip tide having a better than 4+ to hit for its weapons. It ties in with the other suits. In fact, most tau are worse shots than marines, they just have a little extra tech to help them out.
Though the mark 2 crisis suit has me a little bewildered. Not sure why it gets to shoot at 3+ and why its flamer should do anything more than normal.

Also not sure why the broadside needs to have 2 shots. If it is reference to being twin linked then I am not sure if that is right (referencing an earlier conversation if that is the precedence then land raiders should have 4 shots, dreadnoughts with las cannons should have 2 etc ).

Matt


I keep forgetting that we've adjusted a lot of the Tau stats locally, sactificing to hit values for range... So if 4+ is the standard crisis then 4+ it probably should be. Although I seem to remember that they have poorer ballistic skills than Firewarriors in the Tau Codex (Might be mixing versions though).

Anyhow, 3+ for a battllesuit will give them 2+ on a markerlight target. That is pretty darn good! As for the broadsides I think you are right in guessing that twin linked might be the cause of the double attack. However, the original minis have 2 guns aswell, and, besides other heavy weapons infantry like devestator marines have 2 hits, so I believe the broadsides should retain that ability.

Nils


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:43 am 
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@ringo wrote:
I keep forgetting that we've adjusted a lot of the Tau stats locally, sactificing to hit values for range... So if 4+ is the standard crisis then 4+ it probably should be. Although I seem to remember that they have poorer ballistic skills than Firewarriors in the Tau Codex (Might be mixing versions though).


In 40k, most Tau have BS3 whether they are Firewarriors, in suits or in vehicles, the only ones that are better are the characters, the hammerhead/skyray gunships (BS4) and the Sniper (BS5, but only gets to fire a markerlight). So they are just as good as guardsmen when it comes to firing (which should put them into the 5+ to hit range), but I am guessing that because Tau armies load up on markerlight drones they get to boost their BS, so 4+ to hit.

@ringo wrote:
Anyhow, 3+ for a battllesuit will give them 2+ on a markerlight target. That is pretty darn good! As for the broadsides I think you are right in guessing that twin linked might be the cause of the double attack. However, the original minis have 2 guns aswell, and, besides other heavy weapons infantry like devestator marines have 2 hits, so I believe the broadsides should retain that ability.


But as I said, other armies with twin linked weapons haven't taken this into account. Nearly every model that is twin linked has two guns, but most (if any) don't gain extra shots in NetEpic. Take the marine dreadnought (heavy) which is a similar armoured walker, it is armed with a twinlinked lascannon which is very similar to the Rail Gun (at BS4 in 40k as well). It only gets a single shot at 5+ to hit.

Now I am not saying they aren't balanced, as they are pretty expensive at 400 pts for 4 compared to 150 for 4 heavy dreanoughts, I just wanted to make people aware of differences across lists as we don't want to apply a rule or way of thinking for one army, but not do something similar for another.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Tau
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:16 am 
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Yeah, that is part of the reason why we changed the stats around a bit - the official NetEpic Gold Tau hit rates seemed on the whole a bit excessive when we compared their WH40K stats with similar weapons and their stats in NetEpic. So we decided to add range and to some extent save modifiers, and reduce the to hit stats.

BTW I think the Riptide has BS2. I heard it described as a mobile terrain piece with a decent gun :)


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