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Army List: Squats

 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:17 pm 
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I agree with you Magnus, when I play a Colossus, I do not place a counter next to it but I place one for the recon gyro and when I activate the "Colossus", I activate the gyro too.

But if it counts as a single activation and a single detachment (Colossus & Gyro), there's a problem with the snap fire rule as it states:
"your entire detachment counts as having fired this turn"

So when my Gyrocopter is on FF and is charged by enemy, if I activate it to snap fire, my colossus should also count as having been activated.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:20 pm 
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I agree with that Scream (even though I don't play Snap Fire rule).

I've always played the Gyrocopter as being command as well as the Collosus but don't know why. Maybe it was in 2nd edition or did I just make it up?! ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:54 pm 
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For me, the Colossus and the Gyro is the same activation (but not the same unit about the coherency). Remember that Gyro is Skimmer AND vehicle. So only the Gyro is only pinned by an other vehicle and Skimmer (like Falcon or Hammerhead for example). So, the case of the Gyro is pinned is not common. And in this case, you can choose to make Snap Fire with all (Gyro and Colossus) or lost the Recon ability of Gyro.

Remember that it is the same case with a squadron of Revenants titans or Warhounds titans.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:43 am 
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csuia wrote:
Remember that it is the same case with a squadron of Revenants titans or Warhounds titans.


This is a bit more complicated with the colossus & Gyro than a detachment with 2 titans: On one side, you have a Command Praetorian and a non command skimmer vehicle while on the other side, you have 2 titans with the same rules.

I think, I'll use the easy way to solve this problem and use the carapace landing pad land speeder rule that says "The Land Speeder is a separate detachment and does not need to maintain coherency with the Titan" (Amtl codex page)

It's clearly stated that the recon land speeder is a separate detachment (does not need to be activated with the titan) and this solve all the problems with the recon gyrocopter.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:29 pm 
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I agree with doing it in the same way as the Titan Recon Pad.

This should also be applied to the Battlecar that houses a Gyrocopter. I'm not sure offhand how that one is worded at the moment, but it should work in the same way.

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:38 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I agree with doing it in the same way as the Titan Recon Pad.

This should also be applied to the Battlecar that houses a Gyrocopter. I'm not sure offhand how that one is worded at the moment, but it should work in the same way.


Yes, the recon gyrocopter on the battlecar could work the same as the Colossus one.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:40 am 
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Hi all,

I do not understand some changes about VP awarded by squat cards.

Years ago, we agreed with zap123, that squat cards should only grants more VPs when break point was modified by squat "stubborn" rule.

This mean that cards containing only 1 or 2 or 3 models follow the standard VP calculation as their BP is respectively 1, 1, 2 as for other armies.

The only card that gets a "VP" boost for a 3 model card was the grudgekeeper card as it was too much complicated to get a correct cost for it (due to their unique missile shots).

If all squat cards now grants more VPs, superheavies and praetorians should grants more VPs too.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:03 pm 
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What changes? Can you be more specific? IE, specific formations that changed, how, and - at least roughly - when.


Aside from the above question, if using the Points Formula, then all VP should use the "standard formula" of 1 VP per hundred points of cost, as the Squat's higher BP is already accounted for therein. Unless using an alternate system, of course. (Both 1 per 10 & 1 per 1 have been suggested as potential alternate VP systems for use with the points formula. Of course, both players would have to agree and the value of Objectives would change as well.)

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Hi Magnus,

I'm not talking about points formulas, just about VP in current squat codex.

For example:

Goliath Mega cannon support card, consisting of 1 Goliath Mega cannon: BP: 1, Cost:175, Errated VP: 3 <-> Old VP: 2
Ironshield Squadron support card:, consisting of 3 Ironshield APCs: BP 2, Cost: 200, Errated VP: 3 <-> Old VP: 2

Those support card do not benefit from Stubborn rule as they do not get a BP boost compared to "normal" BP calculation so I'm surprised that they now grants more VPs than they used to before errata.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:29 am 
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Gotcha, I understand your question better now.

I have no idea why the VP were changed for any formations in the errata. There is no mention of needing to errata any VP ratings, nor any note of it having been done, anywhere in these forums. At least, not that I can find. Thus Primarch will have to answer to why those were changed when nobody asked for them to be changed. As far as I can tell, they should not have been changed.

So Primarch, why were they changed?

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:36 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Gotcha, I understand your question better now.

I have no idea why the VP were changed for any formations in the errata. There is no mention of needing to errata any VP ratings, nor any note of it having been done, anywhere in these forums. At least, not that I can find. Thus Primarch will have to answer to why those were changed when nobody asked for them to be changed. As far as I can tell, they should not have been changed.

So Primarch, why were they changed?


Hi!

I honestly have no idea. Sounds like a BIG error.

Only formations with the break point edge for stubborn should have the increased VP yield. All other with normal break points should have normal VP yields.

Its a big enough error to prioritize this for a update soon.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:39 am 
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As discussed before, the VP for squats seem wrong. I have made a list of the VP values that does not correspond to the 133% increase (which should be 150% as the BP is increased with 150% IMO). I have focused on the company cards as they seem to have most errors.

The list is:

Squat company Cost Current VP Correct VP
Guild biker 700 9 10
Iron eagle company 550 7 8
Grand battery 400 5 6
Air attack corp 700 9 10


Again it is very difficult to make a table on a forum. But the first value is the cost, second calue is current VP and the third value is the "correct" VP.


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 Post subject: Re: Army List: Squats
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:50 am 
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I have found a way around the tables issue. Write up your table in NotePad or a similar .txt file. Then, using the 'Full Editor' option, use the "font=" button (after you paste in your table's text and with it selected) and specify "courier" without the quotes. You will have to use some character for spacing (I use underline), but it works.

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