I was trying to base them on the FW fluff and description, while doing something that added something new and interesting.

Hornet....not sure there is a huge difference between 1 shot at 4+ that does D3 hits, and two shots at 4+. Actually, a quick run through my head indicated the probability of a single hit is exactly the same either way. I'd pump for the D3 thing just 'cause it's a little cooler. 200 for 3 is probably right though, yes.

Lynx. From the FW price I assumed it is bigger than a standard Falcon but smaller than the new style Superheavies. So I thought a 1+ save, but not classed as a SH.

I know the FW fluff says sonic cannon, and I did look at the weapon of that name on the Phoenix. That wouldn't be a horrid option, though in effect you would have a shorter range Tempest whose shots ignore cover. However, the thing looks exactly like a Tremor cannon (GW fluff redaction at work) and I thought it would be pretty cool as a vehicle weapon. Price is TC cost + 100 for the vehicle. Seemed reasonable to me. I think the vehicle is too small for an Ordinatus class weapon personally, though I'd be interested to hear how the sonic lance works in 40K.

I did contemplate a single Pulse laser for the other variant, but tbh I figured no one would bother using it then (same firepower as the Hornet!). Exhibit A - the Cobra. Adding the Pulsar follows the above design, and I could imagine a Craftworld with a shortage of Phantoms whacking the titan class weaponry on a tank destroyer chassis. I'd rather keep the design and mess with cost....make it cool but not abusive due to points.

A compromise could be to use a single Pulse laser but extending the range to 100cm. Cost would have to come down a lot though.

Have you considered the stats presented for the Hornet in the Eldar thread?

This is the Eldar thread?????

You getting your systems mixed up?

Ahh - the Netepic thread. So you are slightly behind the similar debate on the Net:EA Eldar thread . . . my bad
However, you may be able to glean some thoughts from there. We also found the initial Hornet stats OTT, so toned them down either by reducing the numbers of vehicles, or by reducing the firepower or both.
The issue seems to be to find a compromise that does not replace the Falcons or Vypers (or other vehicles) which also provides a usefull niche, while also reflecting the W40K stats as far as possible.

Good luck, as that 'compromise' is difficult to achieve.

As Onslaught Miniatures wave 7 will offer some nice proxies for Dark Eldars, I've checked the DE codex and I've found that they have access to Off-board Barrages but there's no Forward Observer available in the army...

Hi!

Good catch.

Added.

Primarch

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Primarch


The Primarchload
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Hi !

Rules about unicorns is not good :
The text says : "If one vibro-cannon hits the target the TSM is 0, if two hit the TSM is –1 and if three lines cross the TSM is –2." A copy-paste from vibro-cannon rules

But a unicorn battery contain only two Unicorns So, I purpose :
"If one unicorn hits the target the TSM is -1 and if two lines cross the TSM is –2." (yes a unicorn is more efficient that a vibro-cannon).

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Hi!

I will add this to the next errata list.

Primarch

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Why Unicorn should wear a better vibro cannon than a standard vibrocannon battery ? I think that improving the unicorn vibro cannon TSM would make it a nice titan killer as the vibro cannon ignores shield.

If eldar player wants a better vibro-cannon, take 1 or 2 Tremor Cannon on a Phantom Titan, they will do the job (at the cost off course). On my side, I'd removed the " and if three lines cross the TSM is –2" from Unicorn description.

As I was reading the vibro cannon description, I discovered that they could fire indirectly as stated by:
"(this may be direct or spotted by a command unit)"
Note that the "by a command unit" only appears in Unicorn description.
Does this means that the vibro-cannon is considered as a "template" weapon ?
This may be important when targeting a unit with "hard-to-hit" or "glamour of slaanesh" or "holo-field" abilities.

HI ScREaM,

a battery of vibro-cannons containt 3 vibro-cannons. If the three vibro-cannons at the same battery fire against the same target (the three lines cross at the same point), so the TSM is -2. (0 for only one line, -1 for two lines).

a battery of Unicorns containts only 2 unicorns. I purpose that the TSM if all Unicorns fire against the same target is the same : so -2. And -1 if only one line.

Unicorn is a little stronger that vibro-cannons but only a litte Unicorns are more movables that vibro-cannons but a unicorn cost 75 points instead of 33 points for a vibro-cannon.

But we can say : TSM -2 if the two lines of unicorns crossed, TSM 0 if not.


About the spotted fire, I think that the text "by a command unit" in unicorn description is a mistake. But, I do not be shocked that Vibro-cannons and Unicorns can be used in indirect fire (in french sorry : "après tout, ils tirent à travers le sol, ils n'ont pas besoin d'avoir une ligne de vue dégagée").

But, we must add in description (both vibro-cannons and unicorns) : "Vibro-cannon can not fire against flyer/floater who are not at ground". It is obvious but we must add ^^.

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Based on the first paragraph of the description of the Unicorn, it seems to me that the Vibro-Cannon mounted on the Unicorn is intended to be exactly the same hardware as on the Vibro-Cannon platform. Thus it should work the same, meaning one line is TSM 0, two lines is TSM -1. The reference to three lines on the Unicorn should be considered a typo.

I do agree that the reference to a Command model being required to spot for a Unicorn is probably a typo and should be ignored.

The Unicorn model is a lot more powerful that the Vibro-Cannon model. It moves much faster, has a Save, and a much better CAF. While the Unicorn is a Skimmer, it probably should not be able to make pop-up attacks at all for two reasons. First, it does not need to as it can make indirect attacks and a big reason for using them at all IS to destroy buildings. Second, how could it send a tremor through the ground while 15 meters off of the ground? It is just illogical.

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I think that tinkering with things like not allowing a skimmer to make pop-up attacks, or changing the profile of the weapon to make it more effective, and similar proposals all go outside the remit of the revisions to gold. I think that we should solely focus on clearing up any errors in the rules here.

I don't use Unicorns myself, and probably never will, but I agree with Magnus that the section about the command model sounds like a mistake, so could be removed. The whole 'template' issue should not be relevant to Vibrocannons either. They are not template weapons.

I also imagine that the Unicorn is meant to function just like a Vibrocannon, only it's mounted on a skimmer platform, which gives it more mobility.

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About TSM
Ok, I am agree with you. The TSM of the Unicorn's weapons is 0 for a single line and -1 if the two lines are crossed.


About the indirect fire
I think that vibro-cannons and unicorns can make indirect fire because they do not need to see the target to fire it. These weapons fire at ground and nothing can stop it. But, if vibro-cannons or unicorns use indirect fire, each model scatter regardless the other. In fact, it is very less accurate that a direct fire (certainly the primary target will not be hit by all the models, reducing the effects and the TSM).

In addition, the eldar player must use one spotter model per model at the detachment (so three models for a vibro-cannon battery and two for an unicorns battery).



About pop-up attack
I am agree, Unicorns can not use a pop-up attack.


And we must write that vibro-cannons, unicorns and tremor cannons can not fire against flyer or floater except if there at ground.

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Actually, in thinking about it a bit more, the Unicorn should be able to make Pop-up attacks. My previous reasoning breaks down when the Phantom Titan Tremor Cannon is considered, as it is already a fair distance from the ground and works fine. Also Eldar tech goes way beyond Earth tech, so calling it "illogical" by that standard (which is what I was doing) is really not a valid point. Sorry about confusing the issue a bit more.

I agree that there should be a note added to the effect that Flyers, Floaters, and other models not within 2cm of the ground should be immune to Vibro / Tremor weapon attacks, due to the way they are described as working. While many would just consider this as a "Common Sense" thing, we have all (I'm reasonably sure) met people who do not have "Common Sense" and say that if it's not in the rules then it's not so.

Whether or not it should be considered as a Template attack is a slightly trickier issue. I believe that it is, as it creates an affected area that is 2cm wide and up to 75cm long. The fact that it can affect models along the affected area supports it being considered as a template. I cannot think of any direct-fire attack on a model that also affects models between the firing model and the target. Still, assuming it is considered a template, having the whole affected area subject to scatter would be silly. If it is, I'd suggest that the only part that scatters is the intended target point, then once that is determined you redetermine the location of the cylinder starting at the firing model and ending wherever it scattered to. To put that another way, when fired you would choose the intended target, roll for scatter IF indirectly fired, then determine which models are between the firing model and the actual target point.

Irisado makes a good point about not making major changes to Gold, just clearing up errors. Any major changes should be left to Platinum.

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Hi,

1 question and 2 erratas:

Q1) question: about Eldar titan Power Fist, should it now act as the new Imperial Power fist (can re-roll one or all close combat dice(s)) ?

E1) errata: Biel Tan Phoenix Host page 8, box at right:
"These stands take on the exact same characteristics as the Aspect Warriors, with the addition of the Command and HQ abilities."
should be replaced by:
"These stands take on the exact same characteristics as the Aspect Warriors, with the addition of the Command, HQ abilities and a +8 caf value".

E2) errata: stats table page 55, phantom titan: move is noted "25cm", should be "20cm"