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Converting units from 40K

 Post subject: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:13 pm 
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Primarch,

do you have a particular reference for a process of converting a 40K unit to NE:G?

It will be self explanatory soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:15 pm 
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madmagician wrote:
Primarch,

do you have a particular reference for a process of converting a 40K unit to NE:G?

It will be self explanatory soon.


Hi!

Not that I can think of. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Find equivalents from 40k that have stats. Adjust accordingly

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:12 pm 
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So,

I have spent a good bit of plane time analyzing 6th edition 40K and here is the initial part of a draft framework I am building to convert Units. It is highly incomplete and still needs a ton of work, but just wanted to put it out there.


Conversion of 6th Edition WH40k units to Net Epic

The goal of this is to provide a more standard method of converting newer units from WH40k 5-7th Edition (and eventually RT/1st, 2nd, and 3rd) into NetEpic Units. Key to this process is integration into the new units and points system and potential army structure changes for NE 6. Also, I would like to recapture some, but not all, of the unit variety that was abstracted out of 2nd Edition SM/TL. A stretch goal is to enable the back porting of these units into NE:G as well.

As this will not be an exact science, some play testing and tweaking will likely be necessary and some consideration will be given to, for lack of a better term “price to performance match” Units. For example a Tyranid or IG Infantry unit that carries a disproportionate cost to other Tyranid or Guard units will likely be put under the microscope, whereas a Bio-Titan or Praetorian may simply cost a good many points. I foresee this being a more common case more for infantry and other smaller units (probably tanks and below) than for Super Heavies and larger.

You will need:
- Current NE:G Codex for the army you are researching
- WH 40K 4th-7th Ed Codex or Imperial Armour Book, WD or SG writeup.
- Patience
- Adult Beverage (many)

Checksumming / Baselining
- Due to the ever-changing WH40k rule set, you should start off with a baseline unit, such as a Standard Marine or Guardian to apply the process to. If there are significant deviations in the rules for other editions, we will need to adapt the formula for that version, although I would prefer to keep the process as similar as possible on an edition-by-edition basis. Edge cases will need to be handled individually. I would suggest that you do this once for each class of unit.

Unit Evolution
- Some Units have changed drastically in form and function since 2nd Edition 40k. These cases will need to be looked at for re-naming, for example, “Behemoth Trygon” for the existing NE Rules and “Leviathan Trygon” for the 6th edition version. Initially, however, simply name the unit <UnitName>(<Edition>).

Basic Characteristics

Movement –

Movement should be based upon the existing NetEpic standard for movement as follows:

10 cm: Infantry
20 cm: Medium tanks
25 cm: Cavalry
75 cm: Flyer

(If not listed here, base on typical unit of the same pinning class from the existing army.)

There may be some cases where a unit has an extraordinarily higher or lower movement rate than normal. Note this, as it will need to be addressed on an Individual basis


Armour Save –

In WH40k, a save roll of 1 is always failed. There is no such rule in NE. 1+ and 2+ saves are uncommon and should be saved for heavily armoured vehicles, superheavies and Titans. Because of this and NE's "no save" of some units, we will map 40K to NE as follows:

For Infantry convert as follows

40K NE
2+ 3+
3+ 4+
4+ 5+
5+ 6+
6+ -

If a 40k unit has an Invulnerable Save, Give it a “Fixed Save” for NE.


CAF –

Convert CAF as follows

(Weapon Skill + Strength) /2

If number of attacks is > 1 then multiply the above by

(((# of Attacks *10)/100)+1)

Then round the answer to nearest whole number

So in short, we take the average of WS and S and then add 10% for each additional attack if greater than 1. Finally we round to the nearest whole number.

Due to the Abstraction inherent in Epic, most Close Combat Weapons lose their secondary effects when converting. If there is a particular secondary effect critical to the flavor/fluff/power of the unit it should be addressed either by a heightened CAF or a Special Rule on an individual basis.

Unit Type –

WH40k has fairly straightfoward to map Unit types. In addition, clues for appropriate conversion exist in the “Bulky” Special Rule.

40K -> Epic
Infantry -> Infantry
Bikes and Jetbikes, Cavalry -> Cavalry
Beasts, Very Bulky Infantry -> Walker
Flying Monstrous Creature -> Skimmer or Flyer (as appropriate)
Extremely Bulky Infantry ->Knight

Vehicles -> Vehicle
Artillery -> Light Artillery
Vehicle Mounted Artillery -> Heavy Artillery
->Superheavy
->Praetorian
->Titan

Units listed as “Jump Units,” “Jet Pack Units” are given the Jump Pack Special Rule
Jet Bikes are given the “Skimmer” special Rule

Ranged Weapons

Ranged weapons will need to be compared to see if any of the options would make a substantial change int he performance of units (say spinefist 'guants vs devourer 'guants.) If so creating a new unit type may be advisable to capture that fluff.


Special Rules

Special rules will need to be dealt with on a global basis for remapping, integration or removal.


-------------------------Again, this is all very WIP right now. Feedback and hate mail welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:25 pm 
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Sounds like you've got a good basis for an interesting project! Players familiar with 40K (sadly I'm not one of them) will be following this with interest I'm sure!

My one minor suggestion would be that you set the cavalry default to 30cm. Sure, things like Rough Riders and Khorne Juggers are 25cm, but most bikes are 30cm. Eldar Jetbikes get the ridiculous move of 35cm!

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:52 pm 
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Hi!

Cool ideas madmagician!

I'm a sucker for anything design related, so I'm looking forward what evolves from this. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:10 pm 
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Thanks for the initial feedback gents!

The Bissler, Good point, I will need to revisit these as I read through the Codexes as right now I am doing Tyranids as I develop this system. Most likely the outcome will be that different races get different base rates, keeping with the current NE system.

Primarch, Definitely will keep updating!

I get two weeks off from flying so likely I will jump back into painting during my break.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:34 am 
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One thing that struck me about this conversion formula, is that there are a number of eldar infantry types (I don't have a codex handy but I remember noticing before) who have armor saves comparable to the Space Marines. One of the genius updates of Netepic over 2nd edition is the space marine infantry save. It makes them feel like more like space marines. But shouldn't the Eldar units with good armor get a saving throw as per this formula as well if they are to be updated, like the marines were, to better reflect the performance of their 40k counterparts?


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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Good point, yes they should. I have no access to the current game's stats, but I can look over the 2nd edition W40K stats at some later point. Perhaps someone with access to current W40K could look into that?

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:03 pm 
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I will look into it as well. this has not fallen off of my radar, I just had an opportunity to take the better of two weeks off of the road and thus my plane and hotel time (when I usually work on this) was limited. The next 5 weeks are all travel so I will post an update during or after that is all past.

Right now I am going through the 40K 6th Ed rulebook, Tyranid Codex and have Marines handy. I expect a few things to morph as i get deeper into the codexes. The good thing is I have access to most all of the available materials via a collector friend, but it will take a very long time to go through every book!

Help, advice, criticism and research are always welcome!



MM

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Hi! It's me again!

I sat down in the Airport at 5:30 this morning and realized that I literally have NOTHING on my plate for work right now. For the first time since July 21st of last year I HAVE TIME ON MY HANDS!!!!!!!!!! :spin


So back to this then.

First a request, Primarch, can you move this to the NE:P forum?


Second, I have spent a considerable amount of time in 6th/7th Ed, specifically related to Heresy. (Damn BaC distraction. I am a total sucker for Armour Variants.) Here is the key problem with trying to develop a system to convert units over from 40K to NE:P/NE:G

There are more special rules than core rules!

SO. This is going to make it beastly to convert without abstraction -or- without making the NE rules a bogged down mess. My initial thoughts fall into two trains -

A) Consolidate/Trim special rules Wherever possible.
B) Much as in 2nd Ed, Keep the Special rules as Army differentiators only and abstract others to main rules.

Anyhow, looking for thoughts and ideas. I will have more tangible examples as time goes on, I am still thinking at the 15,000 foot level right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:38 pm 
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Hi!

Moved to platinum section.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:40 am 
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Oh wow, I forgot all about this thread, thanks for bringing it back up. I may have to revisit the XV-109 conversion with this in mind. If nothing else, it would help pin down the CAF.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:02 am 
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I am actually happy with the CAF conversion so far, but need to get a wider sample of units done to make sure the curve doesn't go nuts for larger units.


Let me know how it feels when you convert it and we can keep looking. I hope to have a good chunk of the Tyranid list done this week, depending on work staying calm.

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 Post subject: Re: Converting units from 40K
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm 
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Any progress on this madmagician? Any thoughts on SquatWarlord's proposals?

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