It works and allows players to use older models and those with newer models to use them as they are portrayed. Took me a few second to imaging which variants they were, grey matter is getting weaker on a daily basis

Looking through the stats a bit more, I have a couple of questions.

Should Centurions really be Infantry? They are about as large and (seem like they would be as) ponderous as a Dreadnought, so shouldn't they be categorized as Walker?

Both the Chief Librarian and Master of Sanctity have a 'Special' Special Ability. Could you define what these are? It's going to be awkward giving them points values without knowing at least generally what they do.

I did see where it was said that the stats and such should be ironed out before worrying too much about point costs, but it's what I do, so I'm starting on working that up. Also there seems to be very little discussion about the stats themselves, so people seem to be fine with them.

Oh, a minor quibble. Things are not properly alphabetically arranged within their categories and the categories themselves are not quite in the 'standard' order. At least in Gold, all of the Command and Special Characters were listed first, then the Infantry, Cavalry, and so on. I do realize that this is just a first draft and not the final product, thus why it's just a "minor quibble" at this point.

Edit: I just noticed what is probably an error. The Master of Sanctity with a Jump Pack has a Move of 10cm. I'd guess that this should be 25cm, in keeping with every other Jump equipped model so far.

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In the Formations document, under Scout Company, one can add an Apothecary, Chaplain, and/or Librarian to the Company. Would adding these prevent the Company from using Infiltration? Would it just prevent the Detachment (if any) that each is attached to from Infiltrating? If not, then you are essentially creating a new version of each of these characters that has Infiltrate.

As a note, I don't have a problem with there being new versions with Infiltrate, but they should be added to the stats document, and their cost will be a bit higher because of the ability.

Edit: Another question related to Scouts. In the stats document, you have an entry for "Scout Bike", but there are no formations in the Formations document that use this model. Was this something you intended to use but forgot about?

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Found a minor typo. The Razorback FL is listed as having a To Hit of 4. This should be 4+.

Also, having one number for Turret and another for Ignore Cover seems a bit awkward, especially when there is only one weapon. Why not just use one number (or even a *) and say: *Turret & Ignore Cover.

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Typo in the Save entry for the Spartan Assault Tank. Shows as "1", should be "1+".

At this point I'm guessing that the Flamestorm Cannon uses the large teardrop template regardless of which vehicle it is attached to. If otherwise, please specify which models use which template.

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Hey Magnus, thanks for all the comments.

Definitely a few errors, jump pack distance, some boxes not showing the +, will make sure they are updated. For some reason the text formatting sometimes switches to numbers when working in Open Office, so the + and - symbols sometimes disappear. I thought I had caught them all.



They are about half way between a marine and a dreadnought and are definitely infantry in 40k. They are about ogryn size. They are purchased in squads of 3 and can be carried around in Land Raiders and like terminators are bulky. I think they are the biggest infantry an army can get away with.



I actually haven't come up with rules for them yet. I plan on doing something similar to the chaptermaster since they are the leaders of their relevant specialisms in the chapter. Though if anyone has any ideas I would be glad to hear them. The only thought I have at the moment is giving the Master of Sanctity a boosted Combat Leader ability, either +2 CAF or increasing the range.



Indeed, everything with be rearranged. The one thing I did do was put the bike and land speeder HQ stands into the HQ section. It saves on a section and keep all the HQ and special characters together.



Good question. I hadn't planned on doing infiltrate versions as the HQ stand doesn't have it. Given that it is the scout stands that have infiltrate, and therefore only the detachments can infiltrate, they can happily go about their business in the opponents half. I guess I see it as the HQ/command elements just sending off the scouts to do what is needed while they wait behind. It might mean the HQ options are rarely chosen for a scout company, but the option is there for completeness.



Whoops. They shouldn't be in there. Scout Bikes are a White Scar detachment so should go in their army book/section.



That can easily be changed. When some of the units started getting multiple special rules for several weapons, I moved from using the * symbol to superscript numbers to make things clearer, but like you say, multiple rules for a single weapon could just be tagged with a single number.



Indeed that is correct.
Following my post a while back about templates I decided to have anything flamer or heavy flamer sized just give AD and have a short range, whereas things larger like the flamestorm and above would use the large template. Again this was mainly a concession as some people still wanted to to use the template with some tanks. To be honest I would happily scrap the use of the large template for anything smaller than a praetorian/titan and just use AD, short range and ignore cover on smaller models. There is an argument for using that smaller template for small models, but then I think things just get fiddly.

Again, cheers for the feedback.

Matt

In regards to OpenOffice and it dropping the symbols, put a ' before typing anything else. This tells OO that what you are entering after it is text.

So a Centurian is about the same as an Ogryn, Minotaur, or Troll? Gotcha. Bulky Infantry it is then.

It would be easy to create a "Scout HQ" and use that instead of a "Marine HQ" for the Scout Company if that would make things easier.

As a note, I'm only about halfway through the stats document at this point, so there may be more comments coming... You have been warned.

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Should the Whirlwind Multi-Launcher on the Land Raider Helios have the Turret ability? The Whirlwind tank does, as do it's variants.

Just a quibble, but the Multi-Launcher should probably be listed first as it is the primary weapon and the Lascannons are on the sides. This would also be consistent with all other Land Raider variants' weapon listings.

The Spartan Assault Tank is listed as having "Transport 5". You seem to have missed the revision to how Transport works for Platinum. Transport can be bought for one, two, or three stands of Infantry / Support Weapons, but the next step above that is one Detachment. Thus I'm putting the Spartan down for having "Transport 1 Detachment ISW/W". I=Infantry, SW=Support Weapon, /W=can carry Walker class models.

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Will double check if the LR Helios has a turret.

Not sure those transport rules are going to work. Why does it have to stop at 3 stands?
The Spartan can carry 25 men which means it will not be able to carry a detachment of 6 stands. What about terminators? The Spartan is designed to carry 12 terminators, approx 2 stands, there is no way you can fit 6 stands of them in which you could do if you just specified that you can carry a detachment.
So what about the Storm Eagle? That is designed to carry 20 marines, so 4 stands (2 stands of bulky troops)?
Likewise, the Battle Wagon has undergone a redesign over the years and it can carry 20 orks, so 4 stands these days.
And I am sure there will be many more to come.
Given that detachments will be of a variable size, I don't think you can specify a transport can carry a detachment.
So I am afraid I am going to have to say no to that rule, it won't work.
I appreciate all the work you have done with regards to the costing formulas, but platinum is going to introduce a whole raft of new things which means some of the old ways of thinking will not work and we won't truly know what all the new special rules and abilities of models are until we have been through all the army lists.
And with regards to support weapons, again I don't think any of them have been able to have been carried within transports since 3rd/4th edition 40k. There is no way you would get 2 thudd guns in a rhino (maybe 1) or an eldar heavy weapon platform in a falcon. Maybe they need to be specified as "Bulky"?

Matt

It think the transports are good at the moment and reflect the current canon. The add on of a transport from its available ones in its formation card I think is clear and all that is needed. obviously a terminator stand would count as two in a transport as well as the other limitations that have. Support weapons can be towed 1 per vehicle which is as good as transporting is suppose.. Transporting a detachment, no. As Mattman has said the vehicle has its limitations and to carry potentially 30 marines is not in canon with 40k. Just a little off thread will Eldar have a support weapon attached to squads, as I 40k it is not counted as a member of a squad for transport purposes. After that back to space marines The Helios has a turret rocket/missile launcher.

Hi!

I would agree that certain "conceits" will need to be re-evaluated and the formula "tweaked" where necessary.

Primarch

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Sorry, I should have phrased that bit about Transport a bit differently.

Detachments are already variable in size. At least, between different troop types they are, and sometimes even within the same Faction for different formations (as has been discussed elsewhere). Having 1 Detachment of capacity as a purchase level was intended to simplify the system and reduce costs, which it succeeded at doing. Yes, it is a bit of an abstraction, but at this scale that seems reasonable to abstract some things. The assumption is that a Detachment of Terminators (or other Bulky troops) will have fewer stands than one with non-Bulky troops. Still, as this is a work in progress, if the system needs to be altered then it will be altered.

I will keep the '1 Detachment' option for certain vehicles that carry many stands. There is also an option for '1 Company' for Dropships, Capitol Imperialis, and the like, as these should not have to specify an exact number of stands. The costs for these options may have to be tweaked though.

These capacities you are stating are in 40K values, which we don't necessarily have to hold to. This is a different scale of the game. Still, keeping mostly to it is probably the best.

Allowing Transports to carry Light Artillery (what you call Support Weapon) is a thing from 2nd edition and Gold. Admittedly, "carry" is a bit of a stretch, as only the crew would be inside the vehicle while the weapon would be towed behind. A Mole Mortar might be small enough to be carried inside, but that's probably about it. As LA/SW movement type is identical to Infantry, carrying them should theoretically be as easy as carrying Infantry. Admittedly, 2nd edition and Gold limited towing LA to one per vehicle, so perhaps LA/SW should have the Bulky ability in Platinum.

Another thing from 2nd and Gold is that most Transports are assumed to be able to carry Walkers as if they take up 2 slots (aka, Bulky). Is this still a thing that you want to be active on these models for Platinum? If so, please specify which ones could carry Walkers, or if easier, which ones could not.

The reason for revising the Transport rules was because the old way, a flat cost per stand, was producing values that were just way, way to costly. A tier system was proposed and I put together what there is currently at the end of the 'models' section of the current points formula. At the time, all I worked in was to support what was available in Gold. The reason is stops at three stands is that was all that Gold needed. If it needs revising to be compatible with Platinum, it will be revised. As it is, I've already realized one thing that needs to be rephrased. Actually, that might just solve the issue.

As it is, Transport is stated that the base cost is 4 points for carrying 2 stands at a speed of 20cm, and this base is adjusted by 1 point per 5cm higher or lower. [In other words, a Vehicle that moves 20cm and carries 2 stands costs 4; one that moves 25cm costs 5; one that moves 10cm costs 2; etc.] This works out to being half a point for each stand carried per 5cm of move. If it is rephrased in this way, it should be clearer and cover having any given capacity of stands that is needed. Thus for the examples you stated (plus a couple), assuming not holding Walker, the cost for the Transport ability would be:

Rhino: 2 stands, 25cm: 5 (0.5*2*5)
Land Raider: 2 stands, 20cm: 4 (0.5*2*4)
Spartan: 5 stands, 25cm: 12.5 (0.5*5*5)
Storm Eagle: 4 stands, 100cm: 40 (0.5*4*20)
Ork Battle Wagon: 3 stands, 20cm: 6 (0.5*3*4)

This change should solve the issue without making the Transport ability too much more complicated. I'll have to update the Points Formula post with this soon.

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Hi!

Have I expressed enough how awesome you are Magnus for all the formula calculations and keeping it updated?

I think net epic is always lucky to have math guy step up when ever one is needed.

Much appreciated!

Primarch

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Yeah, when I actually manage to solve a problem instead of making it worse. Again, sorry Mattman for earlier saying essentially "No, you can't do that" instead of (as I did later) figuring out how to make it work. Everyone has bad days.

For the moment, I'm going to assume that any model that can Transport 2 or more stands is able to carry Walker as well, and cost them accordingly. Once you can get more specific data about that posted I'll revise numbers as needed.

Oh, I also noticed that the vast majority of the "Morale" column boxes are empty. I'm also rather surprised that so many of the Characters have Morale scores of 1 rather than -- or fearless. Is this an intentional change or an oversight?

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Hi!

Regarding morale. Is the current system still functional for what it attempts to do? Sometimes the values are so low as to be meaningless (you rarely fail them). Sometimes I wonder if a morale value like 40k rolled on 2d6 with more varied scores amongst armies and units would be more meaningful.

Primarch

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