I agree.

Hi!

Looks like a good consensus so far.

Primarch

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Mattman, you mentioned a 9cm template above as though it already exists, but I'm fairly sure I've never seen any reference to one. Can you point me to a model that uses this template? Thanks.

If it doesn't yet exist, then it probably should as the difference between the 6cm and the 12cm is huge. I could be fine with 6, 9, & 12 being the standard sizes for Barrages.

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No the 9cm one doesn't exist, I created that size to fill the gap between the 6 and 12 which are the ones we currently use. I guess the proof will be in the pudding when it comes to testing the sizes and "to hit" numbers to see if they work.

Hi!

I actually think the traditional 6cm template is rather small, so I agree a template smaller than 6 would not be too useful, so 6cm should be the smallest.

A 9cm template I think would be very useful and the scheme you setup with more BP's dictating size and accuracy is very good.

I think this is a quite a good system for barrages.

How would you do the flamer templates? Similar to barrages or something different?

Primarch

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Interesting thought about doing something similar with flamer type weapons. Flame points maybe?

Hi!

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea. A unified table like you listed for BP.

What does everyone else think?

Primarch

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Sort of gone away from my original point of getting rid of templates for stands/small vehicles, but it could work, let me think about the template sizes and what the "to hit" breakdown would be.

Hi!

People like templates, embrace them.

Primarch

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As mentioned above, we should also "clean up" the various units with Flamers. Probably flat remove any templates from Infantry and replace with attacks. Probably the same with Cavalry, as neither troop type could reasonably carry enough fuel for repeated template use at this scale. Walker and above should be fine with having templates as default.
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Hmm, perhaps instead of "Flamer points" it could be "Fuel points" that are permanently expended when used. Well, permanent in relation to a single battle anyway, they could refuel between battles. For example, a Flamer squad could begin a battle with 5 Fuel Points. Each normal attack would cost one point, so just attacking normally they would be fine for five turns. On the other hand, the player would have the option to use all five points at once (or some other combination) to make a stronger attack that round, possibly even using a template (or a larger template) instead of their normal attack.

As a random example of numbers, perhaps the following unit types would have the following default numbers of Fuel Points (for models with Flame type weapons). There could of course be variance amongst specific models.
Infantry & Cavalry: 6
Walker: 12
Vehicle: 18
Super Heavy: 24
Praetorian & Titan: 30

Off the top of my head, I'd probably do:
Using 1 Fuel Point for an attack gets you 1 Attack die to 10cm at 6+ with TSM 0
Using 2 Fuel Points gets you 2 attack dice to 15cm at 5+ with TSM 0 and Ignores Cover
Using 3 Fuel Points gets you the small teardrop template at 5+ with TSM 0 and Ignores Cover
Using 4 Fuel Points gets you the small teardrop template at 5+ with TSM -1 and Ignores Cover
Using 5 Fuel Points gets you the large teardrop template at 5+ with TSM -1 and Ignores Cover
Using 6 Fuel Points gets you the large teardrop template at 4+ with TSM -1 and Ignores Cover
Using 7 Fuel Points gets you the huge* teardrop template at 5+ with TSM -1 and Ignores Cover
Using 8 Fuel Points gets you the huge* teardrop template at 4+ with TSM -1 and Ignores Cover
*huge teardrop template size TBD.

Yes, the above idea would require more data tracking on the player's part, but it would offer more versatility as well. The numbers above are mainly for demonstration purposes and will probably need adjusting.

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As you said, there is an amount of data tracking involved, which could get tedious and the fuel points wouldn't be specific to a model class as it would depend on the weapon(s) they are carrying.
Could call them Spray Points?

Until you have to many or are constantly using piddly small ones

Ok, but what if the flamers are being used against a strong wind? surely we need a system to account for template size and shape variation in strong wind as well as fuel points?

Have you considered the effects of different races using different flamer fuels?

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You know I reread this as I was going to say I liked the current systems and wasn't sure overly complicated was better while I still think keeping things simple would be better I do like the different templates idea just try to keep the mechanics nice and simple I don't want to have to refer to sheet every time I want to fire something lol.

Will try and keep things simple. Managing fuel points just seems like added book keeping.
The expanded Barrage table is relatively easy to memorise or work out if you know the old table. If you want to fire a medium template (9cm) then the to hits start at 5BPs, for the large, they start at 9BPs.
It might get a bit more tricky if I added the extra bit I was thinking about regarding additional save modifiers for those barrages that would take your shot past the 2+ to hit mark