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Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?

 Post subject: Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:00 am 
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So in various sources there is mention of Fire Ships and Tomb Ships (used in the novel Vengeful Spirit by the Sons of Horus to bomb a planet). These are basically almost empty ships filled with explosives which are unleashed upon the enemy. In BFG these ships could destroy lots of enemy ships surrounding them.

In the Horus Heresy novels a similar type of ships are used to bombard a planet. It's basically dropping debris from space onto the surface. It left me thinking, would something like this be possible to include in Epic? Of course in a sort os down-powered version of course.

So any suggestions for how to do the rules for such craft? Also, would it then perhaps be possible for an armies space assets (own ships) to take down these fire ships before they reach the surface?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:12 pm 
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yeah your opponent sets up their army
then you grab a concrete slab and hold it approx 1 meter off the table

release

win


honestly it's not a mechanic and fluff that lends itself to a standard game of epic (in any ruleset). Best approximation would be some type of random barrage type of effect to simulate orbital debris impacting. Basically the fireship is use as part of an orbital battle and the resultant debris could be said to be raining down otherwise you're in an issue of trying to represent a mutigigaton equivalent impact in epic.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:29 pm 
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I figured, hence the mentioned of a powered down version of it. Titans are supposed to destroy entire cities in a single volley, orbital bombardment is meant to destroy entire continents, yet both are playable in Epic without resorting to throwing bricks at each others' armies. ;)

A random barrage effect would be pretty sweet I think. It would be rather destructive, but not very accurate (read: high probability of friendly fire).

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 Post subject: Re: Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:40 pm 
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a cobra destroyer is over 1.5 km long and something like 6 million metric tonnes. In no place is it stated a single volley of macro cannons destroys continents, just that orbital bombardment can. Also the reason you're having the game of epic is where exactly sitting in orbit laying waste to the schmucks on the surface isn't tactically feasible (desired infrastructure/tech/strategic location/etc). I'm fairly sure that nothing in the last 20 years of fluff has used such hyperbole about titans (and even then I fail to recollect anything about single shotting entire cities). Even if such, ultimately something actually playable has to trump the admittedly twisted physics logic of GW.

In both Know No Fear and Vengeful Spirit ships crashing to the surface are part of a a weapon of (mega) mass destruction. I'd find fighting in the aftermath of the use of the weapon far more entertaining than the weapon.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire/tomb ships - workable in Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:42 pm 
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Is it possible? Yes. Is it a good idea? Well, maybe, maybe not. As was said above, this game is not really able to utilize orbital craft in play (Tau being the exception), but something smaller-scale could be done.

The Ministorum have the Martyr and the PDF have the Human Bomb, thus the concept of a self-destroying model is already in place. All that is needed is to scale up the explosive, attach it to a flyer (or a drop pod like vehicle) and blam.


For example, I am seeing a Drop Pod like thing (IE, a bomb dropped from orbit). It will have Deep Strike to represent this, and have Vehicle as it's basic type. It will have an Armor Save of 4+ as it can be shot out of the air like a Marine Drop Pod. It will have a CAF of zero. [While I could make CAF -3 or something, that feels like cheating as this model will never enter close combat.] It has a Morale of --.

For the munitions, I'm seeing a Primary explosive and secondary explosives.

The primary should use the 12cm template, centered on the Bomb model/token. This is a single shot weapon with 10BP. It hits on 2+ and has a TSM of -5. If there are model(s) with hit location templates within this explosion, each will take 1d6 hits - first to Shields of course, with any remaining going to the model. Also has Penetrating +2, Destroys Buildings, and Ignores Cover. In the unlikely event that the bomb should land on a model with a hit location template (on the base counts) then Shields are ignored and the 1d6 hits go directly to the model, starting with the top-most locations and working down from there (average the Save values of all sides and apply the 'Shoot the Thin Part' rule).

Once the effects of the primary explosive are dealt with, the secondary munitions come into play. Place nine (9) 6cm templates so that they are touching, but not overlapping, the 12cm template. They may not overlap each other at this time. [Yes, it can be done, I tried just to make sure.] Once those are all placed, each scatters once. They may overlap after scattering, and any model at least half covered by more than one template is affected by each one. These are single shot each being 6BP. Thus 4+ to hit and TSM of -2. Damages Buildings.

This model also has the "DAMN, that was cold" special ability. After all effects of all templates are dealt with, all detachments - friend or foe - with LOS to the point of impact for the Primary munition must make a Morale check or be placed on Fall Back orders. In other words, seeing something like this can be very demoralizing even if you knew it was coming. As an additional effect, any detachment that makes the Morale check receives a +1 bonus to all further Morale checks during this battle, as they are either fueled by patriotic fervor at the sight of their side's mighty weapon or enraged beyond belief that their foe would utilize such a heinous weapon.

In the Points Formula, the above costs 393.64248 points, which can be rounded off to 394. In standard Gold, I have no idea what that would cost. Probably about 500 points or 5 VP.

Thematically, the above could be a bomb filled with explosives. It could also be a minor asteroid, space debris, a gigantic orbital energy weapon, or any number of other things.

If you want a Flyer that is a bomb, play Orks and use Pulsa Rokkits. I might poke at making a Flyer with similar munitions to the above, but it would likely be prohibitively expensive.

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