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Alternate Titan rules

 Post subject: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:24 am 
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Being a fan of the original Adeptus Titanicus since it first came out, I've
Been playing Netepic with an adapted version of their charge and fire rules. The rule being that Titans can fire on charge but at a minus 1 modifier in the "Charge Fire" phase which comes after First Fire and Advance Fire.
The idea being that Titans get three things: 1.to be just a little more powerful, but not over balancing. 2.they get to move around the battlefield more making battles more interesting and resulting in more hand to hand titan action 3.it adds more tactical options. Yes they can move faster and fire, but at a cost. And it's less complicated/potentially game slowing than allocating plasma.

The rule I think unfairly favors the Eldar who could get to be harder to hit on charge yet still fire. I've been playing it that if they charge and shoot their holo fields only work as well as if they were on charge.

Like I said I've been play testing it and I think it works great, especially for Titan vs Titan battles, and I'd be interested to hear what you guys think.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Sounds interesting, but I think you have a typo at the end of your second paragraph. "... if they charge and shoot their holo fields only work as well as if they were on charge." Typo being the last word there.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:48 pm 
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There was a project not too long ago looking at doing something along these lines with plasma. The big problem I personally found is that Warhounds become too powerful. I recommend tooling one up with 2 inferno guns, charge 50cm and watch the havoc you can wreak on your opponent's infantry in turn 1...

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:08 am 
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Yes Advance I meant to say. I will say that I haven't played it with Warhounds. And I agree that that could unbalance the game. In Adeptus Titanicus, charge wasn't double the advance speed. They had 24 advance and 36 charge so they didn't unbalance the game back then. I know it would be an extra rule, but how about if the Warhound can only fire if it goes at or below 35cm? And the inferno gun would be subject to the -1 modifier hitting elements under the template only on 5+.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:24 am 
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Sounds like an interesting idea! Worth giving it a go! So:

Charge orders: a Titan can move double speed but cannot fire OR it can move 1 & 1/2 speed and fire with a -1 to hit.

You could actually apply this to all units, not just Titans?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Hi!

I have been studying the original AT rules, because I am gearing up to revise them and I found that the charge and shoot mechanic works in that game because movement is so much "slower" in that game. Movement is usually not double the advance move in AT, so even the quickest units don't move much further than 25 to 30cm on charge. Whith such movement rates charge and fire makes perfect sense.

In Netepic/SM2 movement values got seriously inflated. Some units can move 50, 60 or more cms in one turn on charge orders. I guess that is why they removed the firing on charging.

I think to make it "balanced" the to hit modifier would have to go up to -2. But that is perhaps too crippling due to the lack of granularity using a single d6 to determine to hit.

Conversely, readjusting movement on all units to lower them is impractical.

My solution would be to allow charge orders to fire at -1 BUT, only receive a bonus to their advance move (not double move). +5cm for units with base movement of 15cm of less and +10cm for those with base movement of more than 15cm. (or some other cutoff). This way you choose either to double move and no shooting OR move a little more and shoot at -1.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:43 pm 
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To use the parlance of our time, I am down wit' dis.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:52 pm 
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primarch wrote:
My solution would be to allow charge orders to fire at -1 BUT, only receive a bonus to their advance move (not double move). +5cm for units with base movement of 15cm of less and +10cm for those with base movement of more than 15cm. (or some other cutoff). This way you choose either to double move and no shooting OR move a little more and shoot at -1.

I like this idea a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:51 am 
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Dwarf Supreme wrote:
primarch wrote:
My solution would be to allow charge orders to fire at -1 BUT, only receive a bonus to their advance move (not double move). +5cm for units with base movement of 15cm of less and +10cm for those with base movement of more than 15cm. (or some other cutoff). This way you choose either to double move and no shooting OR move a little more and shoot at -1.

I like this idea a lot.


Hi!

I figure if I throw a bunch of ideas out there someone is bound to like one of them. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:36 am 
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That sounds workable. I like the idea of each unit having another tactical option. It has to be a trade off though so that there are advantages and disadvantages to the new option. I was initially thinking it would be just for titans having read your discussion about how you thought titans were a bit underpowered these days. It worked for all units back in 1st edition days so it should work for all units now provided yes the charge and fire move distances are comparable to back then. To make it easier, maybe there could be a new order counter "Charge fire" or something. You put it down having moved further than advance, but not so far you lose the -1 shot, so it's clear to everyone that he gets to shoot last at minus one when the shooting phase comes up.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:10 am 
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Think it is worth mentioning that I linked this thread on to the Epic Space Marine 40K facebook group. There has been a lot of discussion and a fair amount of it is against this change.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:13 am 
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Just wanted to update this thread: another suggestion on the FB is to allow Charge firing with the -1 modifier but that the range for weapons is halved. I think the intent behind this may have been for the normal double move.

My main reservation with this suggestion is that how do you half the range for things like inferno guns?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:20 am 
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I still like Primarch's solution though and am giving strong consideration to trying this out in conjunction with Net Epic Evolution. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:07 pm 
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The Bissler wrote:
Just wanted to update this thread: another suggestion on the FB is to allow Charge firing with the -1 modifier but that the range for weapons is halved. I think the intent behind this may have been for the normal double move.

My main reservation with this suggestion is that how do you half the range for things like inferno guns?


I was actually considering weapon ranges last night and thinking that the weapon ranges for some weapons are to long (mainly basic weapons like bolters, las guns etc for the basic men) and it might be worth a re think.
I would guess template weapons would ignore such a rule.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Titan rules
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Template weapons using the Large Teardrop could be required to use the Small Teardrop instead. If a 'Huge' Teardrop gets introduced as was suggested by someone elsewhere, it could then be required to use the Large instead.

I would be inclined to just flat state that weapons that use Barrage Points, or otherwise just use a standard 6 or 12 inch barrage template, cannot be fired at all when moving this fast as the Titan (or other model) is just too unstable to fire the weapon safely. On the other hand this is probably a bad idea, as if the model becomes a Command model, it can then move on Charge and fire without penalty (and on FF no less), so the logic here is a bit shaky.

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