I don't have a problem with any of this which is why I have been keeping quiet. Oh, that and the fact that I won't understand it properly until I see the revised unit costs!

Good work though, that's a huge project that you've undertaken there, I don't envy your task!

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Hi!

Excellent!

Thank you so much for posting this!

Now I can use it to crank out some raw numbers.

Is there any list you would recommend I start with, so as not to redo things you may have done?

Primarch

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If you want to do any or all of: Dark Eldar, Exodites, Sisters, Frateris, Necron, PDF, Squat, Tau/Kroot, and/or Tyranid go ahead. I have at least started into the others to varying degrees. Note that many of these may have unique special abilities that need addressing. I was planning on getting to all of the above eventually, but if you have the time available, go for it.

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Hi!

Good thing you said this, I was actually doing the Eldar as of the moment of this writing.

I will switch to Dark Eldar and follow the order you put out.

Many most appreciative thanks Magnus!

I wanted to do something like this for over a decade, thanks for making it come true!

Primarch

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Should have added, "... except for Dark Eldar, I'm not doing them." I'm not sure why, but I just don't like that Faction. I also have the sneaking suspicion that nobody plays it, but I cannot be certain.

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Hi!

Given that Onslaught has a line tailor made for them may change that.

Primarch

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Oh, it just occurred to me while working on Gargant weapons that I was not particularly clear on a point in the formula as posted above.

Under "D: Ranged Attacks" just before listing the costs for various sizes of Templates, I said: "Weapons that use a Template replace their Range value (and Attacks if not a number of Barrage Points) with the following value:" This is not as clear as it should be. Replace with: "Weapons that use a Template replace their base value (normally 4) with the value shown below. This value also replaces Range and/or Attacks values if those entries say "Template" rather than having a normal entry. If Range and/or Attacks show a normal entry (for example: 75cm or 2BP) then calculate using the normal modifier for that entry."

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Hi!

Thanks!

Primarch

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I just realized another thing that I've been inconsistent about. When calculating values for Barrage weapons, I put in a multiplier when a specific value is shown for "to hit" but skip it when that entry has the BP value. I just realized that I should be doing it one way or the other, as otherwise the system could give different results for the same weapon depending on how the person who wrote that specific pdf wrote up the stats. Considering that weapons that combine fire have their 'to hit' value vary by final number of BP, it would be safest to just drop that factor where Barrages are concerned. Except when the listed 'to hit' value is different from what it would normally be for the weapon of that BP value, then the cost modifier would be the difference between the normal and the listed. This will take a little more diligence but will lead to a more consistent system. Thoughts?

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Hi!

I had to give this some thought, but I believe your recommendation is the best course of action; "drop that factor where barrages are concerned, except when the listed 'to hit' value is different from what it would normally be for the weapon of that BP value".

Primarch

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Something else seems amiss in the formula. Specifically having a flat value for "Psyker", as I recall many discussions about one unit or another that is too weak or too strong. Unfortunately, I really have not played with (most of) the units with Psyker much, so I really don't know their relative strengths. What I would really like would be for someone to step up who has played with and against them and knows their relative power levels. Specifically, if this person could list all of the powers that each Psyker unit has and equate them to equivalent powers on other units. Even just a list showing which powers are stronger than others would help, or some other form of ranking system. If this person wants to recommend costs for any or all such abilities that's fine. If they don't, that's fine too. Just having a list of relative power would help immensely.

To the best of my ability to locate, the following are all models with Psyker or Psychic powers:

Models with Psyker:
Adeptus Psyker (Guard, TL)
Astropath (Guard, TL)
Cleric (Sisters)
Dominatrix (Tyranid)
Farseer (Eldar)
Hive Queen (Tyranid)
Kroot Shaman (Tau/Kroot)
Librarian (Marine)
Living Ancestor (Squat)
Magi (Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch)
Renegade Psyker (Chaos)
Sanctioned Psyker (PDF)
Shadowseer (Eldar)
Visionary (Eldar)
Warlock (Eldar)
Warlock Titan (Eldar)
Zoanthrope (Tyranid) any ability other than Warp Blast

I have intentionally left off the Ork Weirdboy as his only 'power' is the Blast, and that I've rated as a weapon system. Same with the Zoanthrope, but I don't recall offhand if it has other abilities.

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Hi!

Zoanthropes and wierdboys are sort of "blast" creatures, so they can be treated as weapons.

I would divide the rest into two categories:

1. Dominatrix, warlock titan, Hive queen. The more powerful ones

2. All the rest. They are more or less equivalent (especially after the changes to the librarian).

The ones listed first I would cost higher than the bulk in number two.

Primarch

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Something which has arisen in the IG thread is that I think the Transport ability is being over costed, particularly for the C.I. which only becomes a tastier target when you add companies to them. I wanted to register this concern here as I thought this might be the more suitable place to debate this rather than in the IG specific thread.

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That is entirely a possibility. Most units with Transport do seem to be coming out disproportionately higher than non-Transport units. I can try halving the cost and see if that makes a reasonable difference.

Any thoughts on Psyker units, Bissler?

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Hi!

I think discounting the transport ability would be a good idea.

Primarch

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