I played Kevster again last night and one thing that came up was the Deep Strike rule as I hit his Marine back line with 2 squads of Swooping Hawks. There were three elements we thought could do with some improvement.

1. Timing: we both felt that the idea of Deep Strike having to occur in the compulsory movement phase gave defending forces the maximum advantage to react to the Deep Strike threat. Maybe this is how it should be, but given that Deep Strike should be a surprise we felt it didn't sit right with us.

2. Scatter: with 2 scatter and then each individual model scattering again, this was slow and unwieldy. My suggestion to speed up play would be to limit this to the initial double scatter and then allow the player to place his units; one on the resting place of where the scatter ended up and then the remainder placed within the usual confines of the coherency rule. I know this means that there is no possibility of units ending up out of coherency but to be honest, I've found that on the occasions where they have ended up out of coherency this hasn't affected play as they have been able to reform with their advance move anyway.

3. Orders: this is the big one. It made no sense to us at all that units who are intended for close assault rolls would be on advance orders. We both agreed that they should be allowed to charge. I wouldn't argue for units to be able to first fire due to the fact that they are arriving during the move.

Thoughts?

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Hi!

Having used these, I would agree.

I like the idea of it occurring in the compulsory movement.

I always thought it odd they would receive advance orders.

Another thing to look at for Platinum.

Primarch

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This seems reasonable to me. Of the points I raised, Deep Strike occurring in the compulsory movement phase is the least problematic.

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Hi!

Agreed, although how would you do it for Evolution? No compulsory movement there.

Primarch

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It would be easy enough to reinstate the compulsory movement phase and slot it in before any activations are made. But that would mean that defending forces would have the chance to place orders to better react to the situation. I don't know if that's a real problem because with units being ordered as they are activated, Evolution is very much more about reactive play. It would solve the problem of the Avatar's movement as well.

On the other hand, you could just allow Deep a Strike to occur like any other activation...

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Hi!

I would allow it to occur like any other activation. That is the way I played it. It made it powerful, but the opponent could react to it as well.

Primarch

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Never really thought about that deep striking has to be done in the compulsory phase.
I think the unit should deep strike and then carry out the order it is assigned as part of its activation. If a unit is being held in reserve to jump into battle, they will arrive to carry out a specific task and therefore would need to be given specific orders. Having them always have advance seems very restrictive.
The double scatter for deep striking does make it a bit to much, I can't say I have managed to get a deep striking unit to actually do anything. Maybe have both Teleporting and Deep Striking both scatter the 2d6 as normal, but to represent Teleporting being more accurate, allow the scatter dice to be re-rolled.
As with any other activation, the activation can be responded to with first fire orders.

Matt

I've had the same problem Matt, because of the restrictive advance order units DS really did nothing until the following turn. I'm pleased that the general consensus is to allow the charge order as well, this will definitely increase the effectiveness of DS.

It's not so much the initial double scatter that bothers me about Deep Strike so much as once this is resolved each individual model is scattered again. This is the part of the process that seems wholly unnecessary.

I'm happy with an initial double scatter for DS and Teleport to remain as a single scatter as it is now.

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Advance order for Teleport/Deep Strike is the counter part for reaching the board in the back of your enemy...If you can charge after Teleport/Deep Strike, I hardly imagine damages that 3 Terminators detachments could do in next close combat phase without letting your opponent being able to react to this.

Teleport/Deep Strike infantry units is a nice advantage that no so many armies have access to and it can totally block your opponent in his choice (do I have to keep this troops in first fire if he teleport them here ? Do I have to place my assault troops there to protect from a deep strike/teleport ?).

At least, with an advance order, opponent has a chance to react, chance that he will not have if TP/DS troops can charge.

On my side, I always teleport my terminator company, it's hard for my opponent to handle teleported temis, if they could arrive with Charge Order, that would be even more painful...

Teleporting does take up the the special slot and you need one for each detachment, so if you want to teleport 3 terminator detachments, then it will mean you need at least 3 companies. Is the option to teleport worth giving up the chance to take a titan?

Given that most infantry only have a 20cm charge range, if the scatter goes wrong then they could be away from their target.
I think it is worth a try to see if a change to the rules works. We now have snap firing which can counteract a charge from a deepstrike/teleport, maybe ignore the -1 to snap fire when shooting at them if you see them appear (like drop pods). Or have the unit take a morale check to be able to carry out the order otherwise they go on advance (obviously it won't have much effect on armies like marines, but we have been saying that we wanted some way of making morale more important in the game and it might throw a spanner in the works every now and again, even more so if we move to a 2d6 morale in platinum).

The other option is to bring in some sort of delay or mishap system (40k have used it for a long time). There is always a risk that you won't appear at the right moment or appear at all.

In the platinum list, I am allowing any veteran unit the ability to teleport as its transport option, but it will now come with an associated cost rather than just being free.

Matt

Teleport is free for terminators in exchange of their land raiders.

Where does it say that? Just looked through the marine army list and couldn't find any mention that terminators can do that.

Matt

It seems that it's only written in Chaos terminator description...

I guess the difference is that Chaos Terminators are the only ones in the chaos list that can teleport whereas the marine option can be applied to any unit. Plus Chaos Terminators are restricted to the Chaos Marine list which has to be the main component in your army and you only get 25% to spend on powers :/

Hi Matt,

I double checked Gold codices about teleporting terminators forfeiting Land Raiders and effectively, it only appears in the Chaos Codex (and in NetEpic 4.1 codex).

About Chaos Terminators, they can be fielded in CSM list or in Legion CSM list, on my side, I play them in my Iron Warriors Chapter. You can even play them in a Chapter Power list but you're restricted to detachments only (as each Chaos Power Legion can pick standard CSM support cards).