Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 168 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules & Video Tutorial

 Post subject: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules & Video Tutorial
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
EDIT: DOCUMENTS REWORKED AND UPDATED 16/3/15.

Please find attached documents for the full rules for Net Epic Evolution.

Comments and criticisms openly welcomed.

The video tutorial can be found here: http://youtu.be/zDpIIaI6UFo

EDIT: The documents below are an updated set of the rules based on extensive playtesting. If you were one of the 154 wonderful people who downloaded the previous version, thank you and please feel free to download these replacement documents! I've posted these in PDF as well as Word format as I understand that is preferable to some people. Both documents are the same so you don't need to download them both.


Attachments:
Evolution.pdf [1.21 MiB]
Downloaded 298 times
Evolution.doc [2.27 MiB]
Downloaded 167 times

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Last edited by The Bissler on Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:00 am, edited 5 times in total.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:35 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 26613
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

Thanks! Let's keep it all on this thread for easy access.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch
Net Epic Coordinator

The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Cheers Primarch - time to remove the previous thread do you think?

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:25 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 26613
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
The Bissler wrote:
Cheers Primarch - time to remove the previous thread do you think?


Hi!

Not really. Just update this one. You never know what we need to refer to in the original discussions. :)

Primarch

_________________
Primarch
Net Epic Coordinator

The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:00 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:41 am
Posts: 353
Location: Akron, Ohio USA
OK, I haven't read the other thread discussing this, too long to jump into cold, and I don't want to get bogged down keeping straight 2 sets of similar rules, so this might have already been discussed, but I have skimmed over the doc above and have a couple of questions.

The first is, I'm curious what are you trying to accomplish with this modification? What shortcoming of the existing NetEpic rules are you trying to fix by combining it with the E:A system?

The other thing that occurred to me is that this would encourage a player to have their units on first fire orders fire as late in the turn as possible, which makes the name very counter intuitive.

_________________
Thanks,
Troy


Once Upon a Midnight Dreary....


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:56 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Hi FL, thanks for the interest in this project.

Quick bit of background, I've been playing what is now NetEpic from the days of Adeptus Titanicus. I've always loved the system and have played literally hundreds of games over the past 20 odd years. I only discovered this forum just over a year ago and learned about E:A which had completely passed me by. Because of the overwhelming prefrence by forum members and a desire to play against new opponents, I decided to give E:A a go. No disrespect to E:A players but I really didn't like it, and I felt it was incredibly complicated. I didn't play enough of it to find out, but I have heard from E:A players themselves that a lot of the flavour of individual units that exists in Net Epic is not present in that system. The one thing that I really did like about E:A was the activations system, it just made me feel that play was more engaging, involved and urgent. I felt that if that flow could be applied to the Net Epic ruleset, then the game that I have loved for so many years could be further improved.

Because in Net Epic (and previous versions of Space Marine and Adeptus Titanicus) the turn sequence is that you do all movement first, then all first fire, then all close combat, then all advance fire, it can feel that after movement not a lot is happening from a strategic point of view in the game, you are just rolling a lot of dice. That can be a big chunk of time where you are trying to kill/destroy as much as possible but nothing is happening tactically. I thought by applying an E:A type solution that the game would be tactically engaging on a more consistent basis.

I have only played a couple of battles so far but I've been pleasantly surprised how smoothly the changes worked and that I felt they did deliver (in my opinion anyway) a more exciting experience. I'm aware that I don't exactly sound modest in saying so! Primarch has played 2 games of 'Evolution so perhaps it would be more fitting if he offered his perhaps more objective opinions on the game's changes.

It's the case where I embarked on this project first and foremost to deliver a more exciting way to play the game for both myself and my nephew (my regular opponent). I didn't expect it to work and I don't think I was alone in that point of view. I am not trying to ram this down peoples' throats. If people want to continue playing the version of Net Epic they always have, I'm hardly against that, I still have a lot of love for that system. If, on the other hand, you or anyone else on the forum feel that these rules are worth trying out then that's very flattering and I hope you have a lot of fun trying them out!

You're completely right about the First Fire point and indeed, I agonized over this early on in designing the system. The fact of the matter is that when you are playing an activation-based system you can't have the First Fires happening seperately from everything else. I initially described the First Fire option as Focussed Fire which I still think is a more fitting description. The problem we have is that the counters will always say First Fire and not Focussed Fire. I thought this would likely confuse players if I referred to First Fire orders as something else in my rules. I therefore decided not to muddy the waters by attempting to rename it.

You mentioned also about First Fire units firing as late on as possible. In Net Epic it was always a fairly predictable race to fire all of your best units at the start of the First Fire segment. I'm hoping that the change really mixes things up for players. Yes, on paper you want to fire those best units last, but if you hold off too long you'll probably find that your best units are dead or destroyed by the time you come to fire them. This meant that both myself and my nephew spent a lot more time considering when we were firing. First Fire too quickly and you've made your best unit a prime target, too late and they may not still be around. I'm hoping this does lend some level of tactical consideration for First Fire when previously there was very little.

Hope this helps, and please don't hesitate to post any more questions you have about the project.

Cheers!

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:31 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Hmm. I've just realised I haven't written in the Fog of War rules. For anyone not in the know, none of the units start the game on the table and are deployed one by one during Turn 1. As Wallace's uncle said in Braveheart; "that's something we shall have to remedy, isn't it?"

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:49 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I've updated the rules to include Fog of War and a couple of other minor corrections / amendments. I've posted them here and above where recently posted.

Note that because some people prefer PDFs the rules are available in 2 formats but are exactly the same.

Also I'd like to say a big thank you to the 13 people who downloaded the previous document, your interest in this project is very much appreciated! Please feel free to offer your comments and be as ruthless as you can! I'm particularly interested to hear the things people don't like about the system. I'll take on board criticisms and if at all possible hopefully rectify any problems highlighted.

Thanks!

EDIT: DOCUMENTS REMOVED 23-2-14. SEE TOP OF PAGE FOR LATEST VERSIONS OF DOCUMENTS

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Last edited by The Bissler on Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Transports question I was asked about the new rules which I thought was really interesting;

"Do you have to notify you opponent when entering play that you[r transports] are carrying troops given the fog of war?"

I have always played the game that both players have set out at the start to one another which troops are in which transport vehicles. Not having to do so could be very interesting.

Transports which are carrying troops which don't belong to their unit (ie Wave Serpents carrying Striking Scorpions) wouldn't drop off their troops in a single activation. Therefore, you could "fake" that you were carrying troops to gain a tactical advantage; move the vehicle 5cm short of normal movement signalling that you are about to drop off troops. The enemy thinks "aha" and engages your empty transports in cc. Then you send in another wave of transports, this time with troops and jump them, creating secondary attackers!

I like this as it adds another layer of tactics. What do others think?

Proposal: Players do not have to reveal to one another if their transports are carrying troops. Troops and transports may continue to be given differing orders. A seperate order for troops may be placed even if the transports do not carry infantry. If there is infantry within, they will have to abide by the order for the purposes of their activation. If there is no infantry within the "dummy" order has no effect.

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Last edited by The Bissler on Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Morale Checks: In an effort to tidy up Morale into one turn, Morale Checks occur as soon as a unit breaks and the rally check now occurs in the End Phase of the same turn. This means that - one way or another - such checks and the effects are applied and resolved in the one turn.

There is one potential problem that has been highlighted; what if a unit which has been engaged in Close Combat has been broken before the Close Combat phase begins.

There are only 3 ways that I can see this situation arising;

1) The unit engaged is part of a Company and models from other parts of the company have been killed/destroyed taking the company over the threshold for breaking

2) Not all models in a single unit have been engaged in Close Combat, and others are picked off during firing. For example, 2 Dire Avengers have been enegaged in Close Combat (only because the attacking unit has insufficient models or movement to engage the entire unit). The remaining 2 units are shot down by the enemy, breaking the unit forcing a morale check

3) A unit with the "Cold-Blooded" ability fires into Close Combat and breaks the unit.

So the question is, what should we do about this?

Proposal: A unit which fails the Morale Check but has one or more models locked in Close Combat is given Fall Back orders but cannot withdraw from Close Combat which must still be fought. Units on Fall Back would have a -2 to their CAF.

Does this seem reasonable?

EDIT: It has been suggested to me that mid-turn Morale Checks could make Orks and IG unpalatable forces to play. The rule tweak could make a huge difference during battles. For example, at the start of a turn, a Company or Mob may be only 1 or 2 models away from Break Point. Under the previous - and from my point of view, unrealistic - system, they could be broken at the start of the turn but all remaining units continue to fight on as normal until the End Phase.
There will be close monitoring of this situation during further playtests. If the result of the rule change is that Orks and IG are unfairly penalised, the only 2 fixes I can think of are:
1) we revert back to the previous system
2) we improve Morale Values for Orks and IG. I always thought a Morale Value of 4 was harsh, I'd quite like to see that changed to perhaps 3.

I'll let things run as they are at the moment. Primarch, it would be good to get your input on this particular point, I know you have already playtested IG. Did you find that the new morale checks were a particular problem?

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Last edited by The Bissler on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:19 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Close Combat: I also made Close Combat more deadly to ensure that no battles carried over until the next turn; ie both players keep rolling and fighting until someone dies. I've been asked how this would work for units with Fixed Saves.

Proposal: Units still roll for fixed saves. If they survive, another round of Close Combat is fought. This continues until someone dies.

Does this seem acceptable?

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:22 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
This is good being asked these questions, the troubleshooting phase is well under way. Please keep these questions coming!

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Attached is a summary sheet which I'm hoping players feel will be helpful during play. I've also attached a chart that hopefully crystallises exactly what effect orders have for units under the rule changes.

Feedback welcomed as always.


Attachments:
Evolution Summary Sheet.pdf [190.28 KiB]
Downloaded 204 times
Order Table.pdf [193.49 KiB]
Downloaded 189 times

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
The new Eldar holofield rules are a problem with Evolution: if anything moves/fires before the Eldar Titan, how do you know what save it will have? :-\

I'm thinking that it will have to be back to a flat save under the Evolution system.

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Net Epic Evolution Basic Rules
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 3111
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I've just realised how to fix this. The save carries over from the previous turn until the Titan is activated during the current turn; at that stage the movement will redetermine the save on the current turn again.

Yes, I know I'm talking to myself.

No problem, good solution!

_________________
Proud to be described by CyberShadow as Tactical Command's "...biggest threat in recent times..."!

Clickable links for Epic hijinks:
Epic 40K Players Page on Facebook
Net Epic Evolution Rules
Net Epic War! Campaign Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 168 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net