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Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic

 Post subject: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:35 am 
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I am attempting to convert AT rules to net epic using Warhammer 40k stats from 7th and 8th editions with the AT preview rules .
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Starting in the top left, we have the order space. The orders on the right go here, but more on orders later.

Command - This is the number the titan has to roll to above to get receive orders.
Ballistic Skill - This is the value you have to roll on a D6 to hit without modifiers.
Speed - This has two values, the first is the normal speed. The second is when you decide to push extra reactor power to the legs.
Weapon Skill - This is the value you have to roll on a D6 to hit in close combat without modifiers.
Manoeuvre - The number of turns a titan can make. This has two values, the first is the normal numbers of turns. The second is when you decide to push extra reactor power to the legs to get additional turns.
Servitor Clades - This is the amount of dice you roll in the repair phase.

The box to the right is the power and shields console. The top line is the amount of output the titans reactor can put out. This is currency to boost actions like moves and turns. Shields can be boosted to allow you to re-rolled failed saves. Some weapons like plasma weapons can be overcharged using power. The largest lasers must be powered up to fire. A warning on this is if you are in the orange or red, you need to roll to see if bad things happen. The bottom line is the number of shields your titan currently has.

The box directly beneath these is the structure console. This has three sections for Head, Body, and Legs. The round circles on the left are the armour. The three linked circles on the left are the structural section. This box is important as its not possible to repair the things in this box.

The boxes at the bottom are the weapons. I didn't get a good look at the Warhound console, but i assume its has two weapons. Arm Weapons are in a 90 degree arc to the front. The Reaver carapace weapon is 360 Degree arc. The Warlord carapace is a fixed forward fire. When weapons are destroyed, the card is flipped over. Additional damage would then be rolled as the damage then can flash back into the Titan.


All of this will be too much work for NetEpic battles unless you are crazy. (Yes I know some of us are)

It would be very simple once these rules are out to create rules that represent power useage. For example if a Warlord starts to overheat at 5 power points a turn we can streamline that to Netpeic very easily .

All you would have to do is see how much power it takes to move, charge void shields and shoot guns in AT.
If a volcano cannon is draining then it will be hard to put more than 2 on a model since it sucks up power.
This can be represented with fixed power requirements per weapon.
Example if a warlord has 5 total power and each volcano cannon uses 2 power then the carapace weapons have to use 0.5 each.
Warhammer 8th edition lists every titan weapon as either heavy, melee or Macro. It also lists which slot they can be used on.
AT ranges on the data cards up top are 1/3 the range of weapon for WH8th edition
Warlord volcano cannon has 180 inches range str 30
Reaver volcano cannon is 180 inches str 25
Shadowsword has a 120 inch str 16

Volcano cannons are macro size this means that in WH40k they cannot be fired while moving. To have continuity with Netepic I propose that macro weapons get 1/2 range under advance orders. This represents less power going to overcharge the weapon system to increase the range and the rest to movement.
Thus a volcano cannon on first fire would have 180cm range and 90cm on advance orders.

That sounds really nasty , let's put 4 volcano cannons on a warlord and pop everything. Sorry won't happen if each volcano uses 2 power and you have 5 to spend they you can use 2 max. This is how to balance it.

Heavy weapons are lighter titan weapons they tend not to be used as much . What if they don't get the range reduction like macro guns?
You could have some interesting weapon set ups.

The Command is replaced by orders covered
Ballistic skill hit chance is covered
Speed is covered by orders
Weapon skill is covered by CAF
Manoeuvre well we normally get 1 45 turn for imperial say on charge orders you can choose to turn 90 degrees instead of moving forward.
Repairs not needed as damage is less tracked.

Summary:
1: Create power levels for each class of titan
2: Use 8th edition ranges
3: Create power level requirements for each weapon.
4: Use Above range reductions for moving and shooting macro weapons.
5: Use weapon location slots as per 40k

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:56 pm 
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There already is a Plasma generation system that was created for NetEpic Gold. It should be over in the Alternate Rules sub-forum. That may serve well enough as is, or if not, it would give a starting point for alterations.

Something that was pointed out oven on Facebook about the Ranges listed on those cards, is that the Demo was using W40K scale models, not the 10mm scale models that the new system is supposed to be. Thus the ranges are a bit messed up.

The Volcano Cannon is already a very potent weapon with a range of 100cm, I see no reason to almost double that. I also see no reason to say that it cannot fire if the Titan moves, as a Titan should count as a stable firing platform regardless of movement. If you really feel that it has to conform to modern W40K rules or whatever, then increase the range and give it the "Move or Fire" restriction. Or just let the Plasma generation & allocation system handle that aspect. For example, it could cost extra Plasma to fire while moving. For that matter, the range of the weapon could be dependent on how much plasma was allocated to it. For example (all numbers arbitrary)
_ Volcano Cannon (Warlord)
9pp: Fires in First Fire segment to 180cm, even if Titan moved
8pp: Fires in First Fire segment to 180cm if Titan did not move (may still turn in place)
7pp: Fires in First Fire segment to 100cm, even if Titan moved
6pp: Fires in First Fire segment to 100cm if Titan did not move (may still turn in place)
5pp: Fires in Advance segment to 180cm, even if Titan moved
4pp: Fires in Advance segment to 180cm if Titan did not move (may still turn in place)
3pp: Fires in Advance segment to 100cm, even if Titan moved
2pp: Fires in Advance segment to 100cm if Titan did not move (may still turn in place)
0pp: may not fire this turn

For that matter, if a properly complete Plasma Generation & Allocation system were in play, then Titans would not have to receive Order counters at all, as what they could do each turn would be determined by how many Plasma Counters (Points, whatever) that the Titan had available that turn, and by how the player decided to use them.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:11 pm 
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They were using 40k models with 1/3 40k range = 8mm scale range

The idea was not to use plasma and keep it simple like it is currently.

If you have a base titan hull with so many units of power available and each weapon has a power requirement number.
Then you can skip plasma counters otherwise it will get so time consuming to run a normal game of Netepic.

I am referng to warhounds, reavers and warlords not imperators.
If you want to only run titans then use AT rules as it comes out.

This needs to be done as 4 volcano cannon armed warlords is not possible. It is not possible to put volcano cannons on carapace mounts.
If you already have models made with carapace volcano cannons then with a power requirement for each weapon will make some builds impossible.

AT will update alot of rules and It would be nice to incorporate them into Netepic.

As far as ranges go Netepic uses cm not inches so if you convert from 40k ranges you get 180 inches= 180cm =72 inches


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Hi!

I am all for doing this, but I think I would wait until the full rules are available for the new AT. Not only that I am going to extrapolate those rules and make rules for non-titan units.

In essence, I'm going to attempt to build an epic system based on what I can gather from those rules. They would represent the extreme side of the hypothetical "goalposts" that I would need to base a system on.

SquatWarlord, if your game for such a thing, I could use the extra hand. If your in to constructing systems that is. ;)

Rumors are for a 1st quarter release. Thats a handful of months away.

Its not long of a wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:16 am 
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Sure I will help. If you need any background info I have most of the Warhammer and Forgeworld 40k books. I will be getting several of the 8th edition codexes as reference materials to update my collection.

The main feeling I am getting from what I have seen so far with AT gameplay is that it is too detailed to run within an Netepic game.

Imagine trying to manage 10 Imperators all at once and have a card with variable data for each model. You would need another table or two just to park the cards on.

No this is going to have to be streamlined while keeping the flavour of the new AT rules.

I only hope that these rules offer something better than Netepic. I have my doubts.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:18 pm 
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SquatWarlord wrote:
Sure I will help. If you need any background info I have most of the Warhammer and Forgeworld 40k books. I will be getting several of the 8th edition codexes as reference materials to update my collection.

The main feeling I am getting from what I have seen so far with AT gameplay is that it is too detailed to run within an Netepic game.

Imagine trying to manage 10 Imperators all at once and have a card with variable data for each model. You would need another table or two just to park the cards on.

No this is going to have to be streamlined while keeping the flavour of the new AT rules.

I only hope that these rules offer something better than Netepic. I have my doubts.


Hi!

Undoubtedly, the new AT rules will be too complex to integrate with infantry, tanks, etc in a smooth fashion. That was the same problem with the original AT. Second edition improved it, but the difference between titans and everything else, was still there.

Having played very large games in net epic, I know what you mean by the endless data cards for titans. Managing a dozen or more per side gets very tedious.

Fortunately I believe it will be possible to get rid or some of the aspects of it and replacing it with die mechanics that serve the same purpose. Then again I want to see how the full system really works to see if it really IS cumbersome or not. Sometimes graphical representations speed not hinder play. We'll not know that until we see the full extent of the rules.

You could also simulate some of the mechanics with cards, not dice, but we can discuss all that when we have a hard copy of the rules.

Thanks for the offer on the 40k books. I have not played 40k since the rogue trader days, so having a collaborator that has them will save a lot of time.

As for being better than net epic, we'll, in the eyes of our beloved fanbase, I doubt anything will ever be that. ;)

I'll still try of course. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:58 am 
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Volcano Cannons cannot go in a Carapace mount? Utter rubbish. There are no such restrictions in NetEpic Gold. Saying that there are, as you just did, is absolutely incorrect. Thus a 4 Volcano Cannon armed Warlord is most certainly possible, but would be rather costly.

Something better than NetEpic? Impossible. There is no such thing, and cannot be.

Hold on. How can you say "The idea was not to use plasma and keep it simple like it is currently" when you were previously talking about power requirements for various weapons and systems. Those two statements directly contradict themselves. Make up your mind please. If you want to deal with power requirements for various things, then there already is a Plasma Allocation system here on this forum. I am NOT referring to the system in the pdf's for the Imperator, though I imagine it was likely based on that. If you want to keep it simple like it currently is, then you will not be bothering with power requirements. So, which one is it?

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:01 am 
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Here is the thread with the Plasma system:
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=25725

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Titanicus Converting to NetEpic
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:16 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Volcano Cannons cannot go in a Carapace mount? Utter rubbish. There are no such restrictions in NetEpic Gold. Saying that there are, as you just did, is absolutely incorrect. Thus a 4 Volcano Cannon armed Warlord is most certainly possible, but would be rather costly.

Something better than NetEpic? Impossible. There is no such thing, and cannot be.

Hold on. How can you say "The idea was not to use plasma and keep it simple like it is currently" when you were previously talking about power requirements for various weapons and systems. Those two statements directly contradict themselves. Make up your mind please. If you want to deal with power requirements for various things, then there already is a Plasma Allocation system here on this forum. I am NOT referring to the system in the pdf's for the Imperator, though I imagine it was likely based on that. If you want to keep it simple like it currently is, then you will not be bothering with power requirements. So, which one is it?


As the topic of this post stated it is about the new AT rules.

Is your plasma allocation system from 2013 based on AT = no
In AT do warlords have carapace mounted volcano cannons = no.
Can you buy a warlord from forgeworld with carapace mounted volcano cannons = no
Does 40k have rules for carapace mounted volcano cannons = no
Does AT use plasma generated restrictions = yes Is that more complex? = yes
Do I want to roll plasma each turn for every Titan I have on the table =no
Are the next 4 lines one possible idea = yes
Can we figure out an average number for plasma generation in AT for each class of titan = yes
Can we apply a fixed power generation level for each class of titan based on the above = yes
Can we figure out how much power each weapon uses in AT = yes
Can we translate that into Netepic (or something new) via giving each weapon a power requirement number = yes

Example a Warhound has 3 power production
a Plasma blastgun uses 2 power,
a vulcan mega bolter uses 1 power
a warhound inferno gun uses 1 power
a warhound turbo lazer uses 2 power.
Result you cannot mount 2 plasmablast guns or 2 turbolazers or combinations of those.

Warlord makes 5 power when you buy weapons for this titan you cannot exceed that cap.
Volcano cannons take 2 power each = maximun you can have is 2.

There is no use of plasma . You do not have to roll for plasma.
All it would do is add another stat to Titan hulls and Titan weapons.

Did you take advantage of black Friday and buy more mini's = yes
Should we wait until AT is released before debating further =Yes


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