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Optionals Book Thread

 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:52 am 
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The line of sight should always be taken from the model as mounted on an appropriate base. The Squat Gyrocopter is supposed to be mounted on a flying stand whereas most Skimmers are not. Falcons and other "normal" skimmers do stay close to the ground (except during a pop-up), but the Squat Gyrocopter flies higher. Think of it as being somewhere between a normal Skimmer and a Flyer. It uses the rules for Skimmers, but is mounted on a flying stand. That is the height that it is intended to be at.

Yes, Gyrocopters are a good unit and actually do rather well when used properly. On their flight stand.

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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:08 am 
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So I can´t even hide my Gyros because they are to high in the air
while normal ground troops engage them in CC.

If they are supposed to be hower tanks I wil draw my line of sight from the ground.
If they supposed to be helicopters (what they look like) the skimmer rules are useless to them..


The other problem is that you have notheing as a Squat player to escort them.
You can use them as a defending unit quite well
but thats not what they should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:23 pm 
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How is being 3cm off the ground being too high to hide? Most battlefields have plenty of buildings. Besides, they shouldn't be hiding much anyway. Just enough to get around behind the enemy and take out their artillery or other unprotected targets. Yes, ground troops having them in CC may not be particularly "realistic", but this is just a game. Besides, you can just move away from any CC you don't want to be in (aside from other Skimmers).

They are not hover vehicles nor are they helicopters. They look nothing like any helicopter in reality. Whet they are is a Ducted Propeller craft. See here for more information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducted_fan In short, they make lousy Fighter craft, but are decent ground support craft. Thus in game terms, not a Flyer but a Skimmer.

Besides, a real world helicopter is just about the definition of a Skimmer in game. Much more so than a hovercraft.

Again, you seem to be using them in a less than optimal role. They should be used as Cavalry, fast attack units to take out lightly or unprotected support units like artillery. Alternatively, they can make decent support units for Squat Infantry, Bikes, or Trikes, by helping to protect them from things that would take them out easily. They are not intended to be 'Main Battle Tanks' and are not suited to that role, as you are correctly pointing out. Why do you insist on using them in a way they are not suited for?

Oh, and I apologize for continuing this discussion here when it should clearly be in it's own thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:50 am 
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Quote:
They are not hover vehicles nor are they helicopters. They look nothing like any helicopter in reality. Whet they are is a Ducted Propeller craft. See here for more information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducted_fan In short, they make lousy Fighter craft, but are decent ground support craft. Thus in game terms, not a Flyer but a Skimmer.


If they should be something like this
skimmer is okay for me.
They looked like Helicopters to me :D


Quote:
How is being 3cm off the ground being too high to hide? Most battlefields have plenty of buildings. Besides, they shouldn't be hiding much anyway. Just enough to get around behind the enemy and take out their artillery or other unprotected targets. Yes, ground troops having them in CC may not be particularly "realistic", but this is just a game. Besides, you can just move away from any CC you don't want to be in (aside from other Skimmers).


You can´t hide behind fences, walls, small ruins.
Even a detachment of devestators protecting artillery will have their fun with those flying Rhinos.
My expierience with them is, they work great as defensive unit due to pop ups.
Belive me or not I played many battles with them and the Squats and they are bad for attack or advance.
I you have plenty of room and cover okay the could work.The Squat army in total is very bad for attacking you bikes and gyros get cut off cause the rest is too slow.
If I hadn´t the Overlord amoured airships and Colossi I would have lost several more Squat battles.
The CC and skimmer thing is more new to me cause I played pinning a bit differen earlier days.

With "moving away " you mean IF I had a moving order(advance or charge) then I could move away IF the unit was not activated until then?

Quote:
Again, you seem to be using them in a less than optimal role. They should be used as Cavalry, fast attack units to take out lightly or unprotected support units like artillery. Alternatively, they can make decent support units for Squat Infantry, Bikes, or Trikes, by helping to protect them from things that would take them out easily. They are not intended to be 'Main Battle Tanks' and are not suited to that role, as you are correctly pointing out. Why do you insist on using them in a way they are not suited for?

If you attack with them you have to come close.
This means in this turn you have advance or charge.
If you move behind a building(if there is anyone) you wont be able to shoot this turn.

If you move in fireing position you are a nice sitting duck in open ground.
In my actual battle I allowed them to take cover at wood´s edges like ground tanks.
Even with this and some other cover they lost 50%.

They may be nice in smaller battle with enough room.
But the are not able to attack some units sitting on first fire or have horrible casualities.
If they support a bike7trike attack they will be the 1st targets.
imagine the bikes try to get into CC which other unit is next to the bikes?
Maybe some Berserkers equipped with Rhinos
but which target will an opponent choose for his high TSM stuff inf. bikes no the gyros will be dead like always-

Teher are so many Epic units and neryly everyone has it´s right to exist
but the Gyros are one of the handiest ones. :-\
Of course sometimes I was to exciting to send them into battle and I treaten them more than flyers and moving.
Should treat them as fast hammerhead or Falcon Tank ;D

Nice discussion
Quote:
Oh, and I apologize for continuing this discussion here when it should clearly be in it's own thread.

+1


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:52 am 
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Ahh what about the Zutik bombers?
Are the propellered howerskimmer stuff too?
They are much better cause the have some 75cm range and +3 AS but they are also very handy
cause I use quite big models so it´s difficult to hide them which you should do anyway.
They are too expensive to send them attacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:04 am 
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Re the Gyrocopters: I tend to charge them 1st turn which means I have the option to fly them behind enemy lines (I use the traditional start 80cm apart) or move them behind buildings usually to pop up in FF in turn 2, but as you pointed out they are a little fragile so won't stand up to fire in the way that Grav Tanks do. Alternatively, I can see how the turn 1 works out, and rather than FF in turn 2, it is perfectly possible to be able to advance and get in behind some of the enemy's tanks. Then you can fire in the advance phase and will be able to exploit the -2 for shooting a tank right up the @rse.
I think the problem you are having is because a large proportion of your buildings are quite small so you can't hide behind them, whereas if you use the original SM buildings you should be able to hide the Gyrocopters no bother.

Good luck Ulric!

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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:46 am 
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Hi Bissler no no I have plenty of larger buildings too.
I play mostly on bigger boards(floors) so the last time a unit of gyrocopter could reach enemy lines in turn 1 is years ago.
In normal battles I play them the same way charge for cover or good attack position(mostly cover) :)


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:57 pm 
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Hi guys, in this thread are a lot of suggestions about new Ig/SM tank variants and flyers also the Macharius and Malcadort :spin


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:16 am 
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ulric wrote:
Hi guys, in this thread are a lot of suggestions about new Ig/SM tank variants and flyers also the Macharius and Malcadort :spin


Hi!

We have not been able to compile a lot of these optional things, since we are still kind of waiting on Platinum or another project to see what is done with a lot of these.

At some point though, we'll have to attempt to put something together for Gold.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:28 pm 
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My friend killed my imperator titan by sneaking a squad of gyrocopters around it's rear and shot the reactor.
Granted he had stripped all shields down .
:(


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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:39 pm 
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SquatWarlord wrote:
My friend killed my imperator titan by sneaking a squad of gyrocopters around it's rear and shot the reactor.
Granted he had stripped all shields down .
:(


Hi!

Did you remember that the Imperator saves with 2d6 instead of 1d6?

The modifiers on the gyrocopter weapons are not that high, so either you rolled very low on 2d6 or forgot to roll more than one for the save. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Optionals Book Thread
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:48 am 
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Yes I know its 2 d6 the main battlecannon on a gyro is -2 and I rolled very low and he rolled a 6 on the reactor damage . So I know its possible to my dismay.
Cheers


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