Excellent thread, Elsaurio. Glad to hear you're trying to bring this popular army into line.
I posted some feedback in Feb, so rather than retype it all I will just post it here. If any of these items have already been changed just take it as confirmation, but there may be some things worth considering.
Oh and I'd be more than happy to playtest any new versions you put out (which means, try break the list and create a new Squatmageddon until everyone is happy with the result
)
-------Feb
I expect everyone is now aware that NetEA Squats are going to need some changes if they are going to be used at tournaments.
Squats were allowed to go to the Cancon Epic tournament, but the organiser has been absolutely clear that they will not be allowed to participate again in their current form. It was widely panned as overpowered and underpriced, to the extent where I felt sorry for the people who took the Squat forces and were facing criticism. Last weekend I heard two other Tournament Organisers also say they wouldn't allow them to be fielded in their current form at a tournament they host.
I have been asked by several people to run through the list and see if there are suggestions for changes that would make this list more acceptable to opponents while still playable. Here is a draft list of suggestions and ideas - note that this isn't intended to be a hatchet job, and
includes some price drop suggestions as well as increases.
First, a quick glance at what the problem might be:
Here is my first stab at making a Squats list. It has 13 activations (7 of them war engines) more than 40 Battlecannons, 8 Anti-Air armed Formations, a tremendous Titan-Killing war engine, 24 autocannons and a selection of infantry, bikes, tunnellers and bomb templates.
BERZERKER BROTHERHOOD [200]
1 Hearthguard unit, 4 Rhino, Upgraded: 7 Berzerker units
BERZERKER BROTHERHOOD [175]
1 Hearthguard unit, 5 Berzerker units, 3 Rhino
BERZERKER BROTHERHOOD [175]
1 Hearthguard unit, 5 Berzerker units, 3 Termite Tunneller
BIKERS GUILD [275]
3 Guild Bike unit, Grand Warlord, 3 Guild trike
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
OVERLORD [250]
Overlord Airship
THUNDERFIRE [100]
2 Thunderfire
THUNDERFIRE [100]
2 Thunderfire
CYCLOPS [475]
1 Cyclops
As far as I know, there is nowhere in the game to buy battle cannons so cheaply in such large numbers, or to gain so many cheap war engines with anti-air. It could probably be fine-tuned further, but the point is it is easy to make an incredibly powerful 3000pt army.
Suggestions for consideration:
0-1 Grand Warlord: This costs 50pts to add to a Bikers Guild unit or a surprising 125 to add to a Brotherhood (infantry) unit due to the 'The Grand Warlord character must be added to a Warlord or Guildmaster unit.' rule. This leads to the SC frequently being added to a bike unit for no other reason (that I can see) other than the huge 75pt price difference.
I recommend that this is changed to 'The Grand Warlord character must be added to a Warlord, Hearthguard or Guildmaster unit.' at a cost of 75pts.
This is an apparent increase from 50pts to 75pts, but in effect makes it 50pts cheaper to take the SC in either the Warrior Brotherhood unit or Berzerker Brotherhood unit.
"Thunderfire - Two Thunderfire units 100pts. Add one Thunderfire for +75 points, add four Warriors for +100 points"
The pricing of this unit doesn't fit with the way prices usually work in epic; adding a unit as an upgrade is almost always the same or cheaper than the original unit cost.
I recommend this is changed to
Thunderfire - Three Thunderfire units 150pts. This makes buying 3 Thunderfires
cheaper (by 25pts), but makes it harder to spam them as cheap activations.
Overlord Airship 250
May buy up to two additional Overlord Airships for +225 points eachThis is currently the single most contentious unit in the Squat list. I don't think I have ever seen a unit so consistently criticised, particularly by the people who faced 5 at a time, but as you can see from my post above it's not hard to make a list with more.
Weapons Loadout:
[] 3 x Battlecannons AP4+/AT4+
[] 3 x Battlecannons AP4+/AT4+
[] 4 x Autocannons AP5+/AT6+
[] Flak Cannons AA5+
[] Bomb Rack BP2
[] Small Bolter Array EA(+1)
[] Overlord Designator Spotter
Having compared them to peers and also played against them, the issue is pretty clearly that they have a remarkable amount of firepower that is unique at this points size.
I recommend they are made cheaper and changed as follows.
225pts
WE DC3 20cm 4+ Reinforced Armour
[] 3 x Battlecannons AP4+/AT4+ (not fixed arc)
[] 2 x Autocannons AP5+/AT6+
[] Small Bolter Array EA(+1)
or with their price dropping further to 200pts
WE DC3 20cm 5+ Reinforced Armour
[] 3 x Battlecannons AP4+/AT4+ (not fixed arc)
[] 2 x Autocannons AP5+/AT6+
[] Small Bolter Array EA(+1)
6 Battle cannons are just too many, and while I am sure Squat players enjoy firing them we have to accept they will prevent this list getting through to approved at this price.
The very popular suggestion to make the unit much more expensive makes it into more of a glasscannon IMHO; even with all thse guns, it will still die. Hence my suggestion to make it a bit cheaper and arm it in a way that makes it easier to balance.
The reason why I am suggesting 3 Battlecannons rather than the previous suggestion of 3 fixed arc (90 degrees) left and 3 fixed arc right is because it would be far simpler to use the model if it was assumed 3 of the mounted BC are always able to point at a target than to use fiddly fixed arcs to represent the way all 6 cannons could never simultaneously do so.
Iron Eagle Gyrocopter - Gain Spotter, no price increase. If spotter is to be in the list, it makes more sense for it to be on a Gyrocopter type unit than on the ubiquitious Overlord.
Or
Spotter - drop this rule.
Land Train WE 15cm 4+ CC4+ FF4+
Change to
Land Train WE 15cm 4+ CC5+ FF4+
It is easier to justify 5+ close combat for a Train carriage than 4+.
If the train has carriages with Berserkers in them, these are already represented by Small arms +1 EA AND (base) +1 EA, so it would still be good in assaults.
Cyclops
This war engine is an amazing war engine-killer. 6 x90cm AT2+ Missiles followed by a battlecannon and then MW2+ TK D6+1 strip void shields and murder many Reaver class titans. That makes it a great unit, but also almost certainly underpriced at 475pts.
I recommend it is given a reaver-class price tag to match its abilities.
As a range-orientated war engine it should probably not be CC4+ but CC5+
Collossus
Underpriced at 450 when compared to similar Warengines. It's DC5 so should be cheaper than a reaver (despite being better armed), but not by a full 200pts. 550?
Mole Mortar
I suggest it loses Disrupt and gains Ignore Cover.
Berserkers
Remain as they are, but Termite Tunnellers become a 25pt upgrade (currently a no-brainer formation at 175pts+free termite).
OR
remove Termite tunnellers, as this unit has a surprising total of 3 tunneller options; Termite Tunneller Free / Mole Tunneller 50pts / Hellbore Tunneller 125pts
Living Ancestor
"Leader, Ancient Wisdom (Squat player may ignore the -1 penalty to retain for any one formation per turn)."
It's either not worth 50pts if it used before rolling to retain (because it works only once per turn, and there is only a 1/6 chance that it is going help this particular roll) and should be made cheaper
Or
It's easily worth 50pts if it is used after rolling to retain (after seeing it failed, and that it failed by just one).
I recommend if it is not the latter, then the price of this upgrade is dropped to 25pts.
Goliath Mega Cannon
DC2. Critical Hit: Every unit within 15cm takes a BM, Goliath destroyed.
That's harsh to the Squats, who are usually clustered around a corner with the big guns. Assuming this isn't to represent a psychological effect, perhaps a hit on 5+ on all within 5cm would be less punishing.
I hope these suggestions are helpful, and again I feel I should stress they are not intended to be a hatchet job to nerf Squats. This is more to bring them a bit down to earth and make it so both the Squat player and their opponent is confident their wins and losses are more to do with Epic's fun combination of skill and luck and less to do with army selection.