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Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4

 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:51 pm 
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good evening gentlemen !


yesterday i had a glance at the new list and my first intention was to wait for list 1.5 .
however meantime i see things a bit diffrent (become wiser during nighttime).

I like the robbos being av.
I liked the gyro formations of 5 pieces (4-1) but i see the advantage of getting three formations for the price of two. i do not know use if i will make use of scouts worth 300 points and mixing the formations makes you loose firepower (just 3 autocannons left)

thunderfire..same stats ..25 points more..immobile aa, great range indeed but formations of two use to be wiped out that fast.
Due to the lack of aircraft you have to relay on the thunderfires. Overlords and their 5+ aa ae not the ones to protect you from enemy aircraft. Beside that i am not a fan of the overlords eventhu i like the models and their 75ers
Always popped up..with a big announcment...kick me..
bombs with range of 45. typo or is this real ?

Cyclops; reduce one shield... :-\ and make the missles at 2+ one shot...what you see is what you get. Do the rockets look like one shot at 2+ ???? indirect fire. indirect fire is a great thing in case used by a warengine worth 475 points and what you get out this turn are 6 rockets at2+. not the big deal.
slow firing, ignore cover, mw, any thoughts about this?.


landtrain; first :P .. . then i recognised the potential of the rad bomb. 4bp mw within 90. that is great and honestly the only reason to buy this train. within my latest games i build a train with four dragon battle cars that worked pretty well, but for the new price and one shield less i not sure about his any longer.

your comments

kind regards

stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Bombs are supposed to be 15cm. It's a mistake! :(

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:51 am 
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So we got game in last night Squats vs Marines.

Game mainly turned on an end of turn 1 air assault from a Thunderhawk loaded with Terminators which bounced off a Guild Biker formation. In the combined 14 attacks from the formation and support only 5 attacks hit. Killed 5. But the replying shots and support wiped the Terminators out and wounded the Thunderhawk. The Squats won the roll-off destroying the Thunderhawk and placing a BM on a second Thunderhawk breaking it within 15cm of the Squats destroying it as well.

Squats followed up with winning the Strategy the following turn breaking a Speeder formation along with the Sureme Commanders BTS tacticals.

Game finished with a 2-0 win for the Squats – BTS & DtF


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:57 am 
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We assumed that the Overlord Autocannons were supposed to be 45cm and not 75, along with the bombs at 15cm.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Yeah - something got out of alignment with the Overlord stats - I'll need to fix 'em. I know Ronsandt won two games with them yesterday but I don't have his list. I'll post it later.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:08 am 
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Here is an example of what we were bringing up with regard to Termites acting as ruins once surfaced.
Attachment:
IMAG0032.jpg
IMAG0032.jpg [ 1.3 MiB | Viewed 1100 times ]

I was hoping the Blitz would be placed behind a set of woods to fully block the line of sight, but my opponent didn't oblige. But this does show that once the line of Termites is placed and the infantry off loaded, but not using the termites as cover they can not be seen by the Warhound which was positioned to deal with the tunellers.
Attachment:
IMAG0033.jpg
IMAG0033.jpg [ 1.15 MiB | Viewed 1100 times ]
Attachment:
IMAG0034.jpg
IMAG0034.jpg [ 1.27 MiB | Viewed 1100 times ]

Some further explanation as to how the raised tunnellers can be attacked/support combat/activated would certainly be helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:07 pm 
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And this is why unlimited height terrain is a ridiculous notion. We had several games on Saturday's tournament where it would have radically changed everything, including a board with a large cliff in which units were able to draw perfect unimpeded LOS to the units 'hiding' behind trees down below. While I can appreciate some terrain needing to be defined as unlimited height (massive mountain, volcano, etc.), it seems inappropriate to use it as a standard. I wonder what percentage of Epic players actually do this? The situation here is no different. How can a player look their opponent in the eye and say that the termites which the titan can step over are blocking line of sight? :P

A river is defined terrain, but it clearly isn't unlimited height.

Quote:
1.8.2 Cover To Hit Modifiers
Units that are in terrain that is tall enough to at least
partially obscure them from an attacker’s view receive a
-1 to hit modifier when being shot at (see 1.9.5). The to
hit modifier also applies if intervening terrain obscures
the target partially from view.

1.8.4 Table
Hills: Units on hills will benefit from better lines of sight to enemy units, as they will be high enough to see
over some terrain features
(see 1.9.2 Line of Fire).

1.9.2 Who May Shoot
In order to shoot, a unit must be in range and have a line
of fire to at least one unit in the target formation, and must
not be suppressed.
Line Of Fire: The line of fire is a straight line drawn from
the shooting unit to one unit in the target formation. The
line of fire is blocked by terrain features such as buildings,
hills, woods, etc. Weapons higher up can often see over
any terrain that is lower down.
Buildings, rubble, woods,
fortifications and the like don’t block the line of fire to or
from units that are in the terrain itself unless the line of
fire passes through more than 10cms of the terrain
feature (ie, you can shoot 10cms ‘into’ a terrain feature,
but the line of fire is still blocked to units on the other
side).


--Emphasis added--

Reading the above, clearly the rules were written with the intent that standard terrain has an actual limit to its height. The solution may be that these 'unlimited height players' need to discuss Termites during the 5-minute warm-up in order to deal with the problem they seem to have created for themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Oh, I agree which is why I'd prefer that they were just treated as something that you can gain cover from but have no other effects on the game. (As we have with Marine Drop Pods after they have fired.)

Quote:
but the line of fire is still blocked to units on the other side
This is more where the rules lawyer in me justifies the interpretation that I was using.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Well, I am open to suggestion on how to make it clearer. Ruins still seems to be the best choice of terrain as it can be maneuvered 'over' with a dangerous terrain test. This is assuming that somebody can consistently use the terrain to their benefit in such a manner.

Of course a real man would have had the 'breaching' termite models in play. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:53 pm 
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How about – If the termites become out of formation they are automatically lost even if they outnumber the remaining units. Termites lost this way are left on board and treated as difficult terrain by Vehicles and cover by Infantry. Otherwise treat as part of the main formation.

This means that they are treated normally when still part of the original formation, not blocking LOS and can be targeted to place BM.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:09 pm 
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The problem is that it ends up creating a formation where the number of units popping out of the ground is significant. Ten unit warrior formation becomes a 15 unit formation that becomes much more difficult to break. We made them disposable at first to allow them to be left behind (instead of coming up with a new special rule) but that made matters even worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Well I do see them as immobile Rhinos as they have the same stats and cost, so I don't have a problem with it. But I do see your point.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Further thoughts on the Squats following a 3k game vs Iron Warriors. I took 2x Berserkers (+2) & Rhinos; 2x Warriors & Rhinos; 2x Thunderfires (+1 extra on one formation); 2x Bikers (3x Trikes in each & SC); Gyrocopters; 2x Overlords & Cyclops.
Vs.
3x Iron Warriors & Rhinos (+SC); 2x Dreads; 2x Decimators; Basilicks; Predators (6 + Vindicator) & Terminators (6). This was a reduced army from 4k as we mixed up what points we were playing.

Game ended up being very tight with a turn 3 win to the Squats (BTS & TnH). Berserkers raced across to attack the Basilicks but failed to activate in turn 2 and had to finish the job in turn 3. Cyclops sustained in turn 1 to get indirect onto Predators breaking them. We felt that this was not right in style terms but the best tactical for game play – We would be happy for the rockets to only be AT2+ and not have indirect. We feel that these are really there to strip shields of a larger titan and the Cyclops is a dedicated titan killing engine. (But you have heard this from me before. ;) )
Otherwise we both had a good tight game and I feel that the Iron Warriors failing both their broken rallies at the end of turn 2 ended up being the deciding factor (reduced activations and coverage of the table).


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Played vs. the SOB 10 days ago. I resigned after turn 2. Things didn't go well, almost all of it related to my lack of familiarity with my opponent's ranges, armament, etc.

I did get to play the new Land Train armament with the bomb car and it looked promising. More playtesting is needed.
I played with two sets of Tarantulas and thought they did well for what they are... I think those are pegged.

Tiny-Tim, I see what you mean about the rockets... Kinda. I'm just looking at this machine and seeing rockets points upwards and they look like indirect weapons to me. IIRC they used to be indirect when the model was first made... I'll need a historical set of eyes on that.

I'd like to keep them at indirect so they can be used with the spotter units, but it isn't set in stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:13 am 
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BUMP

Any thoughts on the list before I release a 1.41 version to correct some mistakes?

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