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Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4

 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:59 am 
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Moscovian wrote:
I've been mulling over the idea of 'towed' Thunderfires and just can't bring myself to do it. I just can't think of anything that tows anything else in Epic and I don't want the list to have another exception.

What does everyone think of Hunters in the list? They can be an upgrade only to Warrior formations which would limit their deployment but still give the list some air coverage that it is sorely lacking. Thoughts?


All the IG seige lists (Baran, Kreig, Mossinians) have tow mechanics. It just takes an appropriate transport option on the prime mover.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:14 pm 
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All the IG seige lists (Baran, Kreig, Mossinians) have tow mechanics. It just takes an appropriate transport option on the prime mover.[/quote]


This is why I proposed it. Uses existing rules and solves 3 problems with the list:
(a) Warriors having no role
(b) Squat AA being easy to target and immovable(This is just as big. If a squadron of falcons+firestorms gets shot down, you can just move another squadron into a good position.)
(c) Thunderfires grant the warriors better shooting

And warriors + Thunderfires doesn't have to be the BTS like everyone keeps saying - several options in the squat list cost more.

I do think Hunters are a good option for people who don't have Thunderfire models or don't want to make proxies, put both in the list just to make it easier on people's collectons? I don't think it's gonna overpower the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:50 pm 
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Gotta be honest - never played with any of the lists mentioned. I will look it over.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Hello !

Next weekend a tournament will take place. Me and my squats we will join the fighting :D .
I built up a land train (land train, bomb car and 3x berserker cars).

The question ist, if it was possible to make a sustain fire action in order to combine the two bp (BP3+BP1) weapons and to reach the (maximum) 120 range with both of them 4BP(line of sight is nessecary, i know about that) .
rad bomb has range of 90, using indirect fire extends range up to 180 cm .

Next question is concerning brotherhood upgrades. Is it possible to buy the same upgrade for one brotherhood twice?
Berserker+berserker upgrade (2 Units)+berzerker upgrade (2 units) for example ?

Thank you

Kind regards stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:38 pm 
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To fire a barrage each unit must have range (and LoS) to the same target unit - check out 1.9.8 Barrages, 2nd para. So, provided all the firing units can comply with this, you can make this into a 4BP barrage.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:19 pm 
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nafets wrote:
... if it was possible to make a sustain fire action in order to combine the two bp (BP3+BP1) weapons and to reach the (maximum) 120 range with both of them 4BP(line of sight is nessecary, i know about that) .
rad bomb has range of 90, using indirect fire extends range up to 180 cm .


You could do a sustain fire out to 120cm, as long as you had direct line of sight, since the Doomsday Cannon is a direct weapon unless you use it with a spotter.

If you performed a sustain action in conjunction with a spotter, you could feasibly get a 4BP shot out to 180cm.

You could also move or double or marshal and get a 4BP shot out to 180cm with a spotter just as long as you applied any appropriate modifiers (doubling would have you hitting on 5+/6+ with your barrage).

Although as I write this I wonder if the ranges on the doomsday cannons should be cut to 90cm, which is still plenty long. It would encourage more spotter interaction IMO. Thoughts?

Quote:
Next question is concerning brotherhood upgrades. Is it possible to buy the same upgrade for one brotherhood twice?
Berserker+berserker upgrade (2 Units)+berzerker upgrade (2 units) for example ?

Thank you


You cannot double up the upgrades for a formation and I will be clarifying that on the next iteration. Hope your game goes well!

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Note if you are using the THURGRIMM list in the compendium, it already states specifically that each upgrade may only be applied once. . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Although as I write this I wonder if the ranges on the doomsday cannons should be cut to 90cm, which is still plenty long. It would encourage more spotter interaction IMO. Thoughts?

I don't think that this would change the way I play with the Land Train as I see it as something to roll forwards anyway.

Of course if it is changed the next game I use them it is guaranteed that I'll need the extra range and fail to activate.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
Of course if it is changed the next game I use them it is guaranteed that I'll need the extra range and fail to activate.


Ha! :D Too true. Unless there is a tremendous kickback, however, I'd like to try it out for the 1.5 list. As it stands I am having a difficult time justifying the retention of the spotter rule and I really wanted to keep it to reflect some portion of the old school Squats. Maybe this will nudge that dynamic into more usage... :eh

Plus it eliminates the disparity in the ranges between the rad bomb and the doomsday gun, making it a bit easier on the brain.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:36 pm 
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If we really want to keep the spotter rule then howabout dropping all indirect and allowing units with the 'long range' ability to shoot at soething that is spotted by a Squat unit with that ability.

Something along the lines of Tau Markerlights.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:01 pm 
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dear gentlemen !


Reduce the doomsdaý`s range to 90 cm and speed up the train (move of 20). :spin in order to keep things 8and point costs) even.

kind regards Stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:42 am 
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Please note that having an army list that makes use of the spotters involves some compromise. The Overlords have to share the WE points "allowance" with the doomsday carrying big guys which excludes their use somewhat and the gyros in my games seemed to have become a bit more fragile with the change in unit size from 5 to 4 and making the iron hawks the main unit (with the 45cm weapon range versus 75cm).
Mind you, I'm not complaining about the gyros. That change just got you more interesting options to play with.

The change of range to 90cm doesn't seem all that bad but I agree with nafets in that a move of 20cm for LT or even all the WEs would be much more significant if you want the Squats to move. With 15cm usually doesn't pay to move instead of just doing a sustained fire because of the modifiers for firing.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:42 pm 
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I agree the movement would be much easier to deal with, however it is difficult justifying that any of these WEs would move faster than a Baneblade or Shadowsword or other SHT.

One change I was considering for 1.5 is moving the Overlords into a support role. This will have two interesting results:
1) Spotter / WE interaction should increase as the number of potential WEs fielded rises.
2) More flexible lists.

The reduction in doomsday range could be considered a cost to pay for these improvements.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:45 am 
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Overlords with support points? I'd be all over that. I'll have to paint 2 more :)


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm's Stronghold List, 1.4
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:49 am 
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Yeah, anything to free up the war engine category :)


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