See attached. If there is anything else you see that is screwy, please let me know.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

initial read through - like the changes made...

Land Train with six bomb cars is a little scary when u consider u can throw out a 9BP attack out to 180cm with indirect and its MW - and thats every turn....Reinforced Armour formations beware!

the Iron Hawk/Eagle solution is a nice fix

also, mine portal & pithead - can we get a consistent naming convention please

will be testing this on the weekend

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

It actually is the same convention as in Swordwind. A pithead is the smallest mine portal type. Planning ahead.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Like it

Looks good, but I'd still like to see tarantulas having scout.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

The Land train set up that Frosthammer mentioned is crazy powerful!
500pts for 8 DC, 6 Void shields, 4+ RA, 4+CC, 4+FF, 9BP MW - 120cm range...

That seems overpowered.
500pts for the best artillery in the game.
Ordinatus Majoris costs more and isn't as good.
Iron Warriors Ordinatus costs 100pts more, has half the DC, only 4 shields, 5+ RA, 6+CC, Disrupt instead of MW, 10cm movement and there have been complaints that it's overpwered...

This makes Goliaths look like pea shooters...

I think this one could be re-thunk

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Yeah - and two at 3k would lower your activation count, but honestly not by much given the limited potential in 1k of war engines - and I'd gladly have one less activation for two of those land train ensembles.

ah yes the planning ahead part - should have realized that based on the wording of the mine portal rule.

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May your tankard never be dry and the Dice Gods look favourably upon your endeavours!

This list has three goals - one is to fix the bitty bits that were pointed out, the second is to fix the tunnelers, and the third is to fix the land train. Regarding the third, it's all guesswork, which is why I ask for feedback. Of course nothing garners feedback faster and better than posting an army list for people to pull apart.

This is why I post drafts.

At 75 points the Rad Bomb car train maxes out at only 650 points, which is still way better, although I must point out the range is only 120cm for the 9BP, not 180cm (unless you are lit by a spotter). Clearly the pricing needs to be fixed. 125 points each would make the Rad Bomb car train 950 points. But you don't even need 6 cars to enjoy the 9BP - you can have 5 and do just the same.

So for 825 points, you can have:
DC 7, Void Shields 5, 8BP MW @ 120cm (And possibly out to 180cm). That's still 2 extra templates and 1 extra BM.

Now, would the average player pay only 125 points for a single car to get the extra template? I think they would. I also believe that you would rarely see anything between 1 and 5 Rad Bomb cars. It will almost always be either/or. I don't see players paying for 2, 3, or 4 Rad Bomb cars.

So a Kmart-discount Train could come with 1 Rad Bomb car, 1 (any other car), and cost 375 for:
DC 4, Void Shields 2, 4 BP MW @ 120cm, plus other shots. That prices well against the Colossus IMO.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

While we are on the subject - let's look at other trains and discuss...

Fire Dragon Train (500 points):
DC 8, 6 Void Shields. BP 3 MW @ 120cm, 2 x AP4+/AT4+ @ 75cm, 24 x AP4+ IC @ 30cm.

For comparison, a triad of Baneblades will gt 18 shots of varying strengths and ranges for 500 points.

So should the Fire Dragon cars go to 75cm each? That would place the cost of this train at 650 points.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Mortar Train (500 points)

Mortar Train (500 points):
DC 8, 6 Void Shields. BP 3 MW @ 120cm, 2 x AP4+/AT4+ @ 75cm, BP 6 @ 30cm (60cm indirect). Could drop 9BP if you wanted to lose the MW shot.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Berserker Train (500 points)

DC 8, 6 Void Shields. BP 3 MW @ 120cm, 2 x AP4+/AT4+ @ 75cm, 6 x AP5+/AT6+ @ 45cm, Extra Attacks (+6). This means it would be throwing 14 FF or CC hits at 4+.

For comparison, Baneblades would throw 9 x FF 4+/CC 6+. Of course they still have their 18 other shots.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

These are the maximized trains you could be facing.

Of course one quick fix would be to change the maximum set of cars to 4. That would realistically limit Rad Bomb cars to 1 per train, Dragon Trains would see 16 AP4+ shots, Mortar Trains could never hit more than 2 templates no matter what, and Berserker trains would see 10 x FF4+/CC4+.

Another quick fix offered by Dave is to make the train a solid one car of each, four cars consistently, and then price it out. I never cared for this idea only because of a potential lack of models and the loss of the fun factor, but it does have a simplicity to it. A customizable train could be the center stage for a WE Squat list (which was being planned anyway).

So, much to discuss. Nobody run off now - I need you talking.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Thanks for the update Moscovian

I'm not surprised it's kicked off a bit of discussion, I was also a bit surprised by the sheer power of the current incarnation of the Land Train.

The Ordinatus Majoris steve mentioned would be a good benchmark (IMHO). It's a similar WE that I've heard described as bordering on over powered (which I don't agree with since if I recall correct it's not fearless). I'd suggest trying to balance the cost and damage output against that, possibly with a slight reduction in cost due to the way the cars reduce the 'start DC' when individually destroyed, and a slight increase for fearless.

(BTW making it have a 'starting damage capacity' of the remaining cars rather than always counting its full starting DC is a cleverly thematic rule.)

From a balance point of view, if it is better than an Ordinatus Majoris as artillery, and fearless and still cheaper, it's probably over powered.

Matt, when you say it is better, are you referring to the 50 point Rad Bomb car or the 125 point suggestion? What do you think of the other suggestions?

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.