Currently reads as follows:



After discussion and playing, I've come to the conclusion that regardless of how easy the rule is, it doesn't do much. In fact, it has barely gotten involved in all the games I am aware of.

Eliminating it would be one option, but before I do I'd like to get some feedback on how we can improve it or remake it for the Squats. I am wide open on this topic, as long as the solution is concise and ultimately well received.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

If you want to make it a more substantial feature, I'd say let it allow any IDF weapon to fire indirect on Advance as well as Sustain, not just the Doomsday (and if you really wanted to emphasize Squat "stand and deliver" you could have it apply to Marshall). It wouldn't make any difference for emplaced artillery like the Goliaths, but for formations that need to grind forward, like the Leviathan chassis and infantry field artillery, it would be useful.

Of course, that raises a question of flavor... the spotter units would probably be much more effective for something like Mole Mortars than for the Leviathan because the big WEs have so many direct fire weapons. It might end up being almost like Tau Markerlights, but for arty.

Don't limit the spotter ability to 30cm. Just make it a weapon ability, that way you can set the range to whatever you want. Give an Iron Eagle a designator weapon (say at 90cm), and the Colossus guided on its cannon and missiles. The Copter spots for the Colossus (either as part of its formation or in another, doesn't matter), which can fire indirect on the move.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Dave, how would you handle allocation of hits on this? Front to back gets a little odd doing this, doesn't it?

Neal, when we were originally theoryhammering the list out, our first thought was to do exactly what you suggested, and we had the same concerns about it being more tied to the smaller arty formations than the SHTs. Then of course we run into the fact that the artillery for the Squats already outshine other types of weapons.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Allocate hits from the perspective of the designating unit.

(This totally imitates how Battletech did it. Which is fine, because Battletech was right).

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The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

How'd you handle it with spotter? It'd be the same.

Allowing hits to be allocated FtB from the position of the spotter might be open to abuse, especially given how slow the Colossus is. It probably be better (and more consistent) if it was FtB from the position of the firing unit. Test it and see what's best/easiet?

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I think Mosc's point is that you do FtB from the firing unit, you'd have to allocate shots rather than hits, since the +1 to hit might apply to, for example, the back of the formation but not the front.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

My concern is when you have fire coming from two separate directions. Iron Hawks with their own weaponry (and presumably Iron Eagles) will be firing from their own direction, making and allocating hits from their front to back. Then the designated weapon (ex. a Collossus missile barrage) firing from another location, all during the same Squat activation. The same thing with the Overlord. I predict discomfort.

Another thing is a 90cm 'virtual' weapon on the Iron Hawk adds to the already long range on the Iron Eagles (75cm). It doesn't seem very tactical at first review, unless I'm missing some component that might be difficult to pull off.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

The guided weapons wouldn't be firing during the iron eagle activation, they would be firing during their own. All the designator is doing is granting the +1 to-hit and the ability to fire indirect to guided weapons, not for them to fire out of activation. Think of designators like support. You put them where they can lend support (or designate), but they don't get to lend support fire (designate) until the attacker engages (fires).

A 90cm designator is certainly more tactical then giving indirect fire to the colossus. The Squat player will still have to worry about LoS, and since skimmers pop-down at the end of their activation they'd have to be left in the open designating rather than hiding behind a building (if they're in a separate formation, in the same formation it wouldn't matter).

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

"...the formation need only be carrying out an action where it is shooting." I don't understand what you are trying to do with this sentence. Help me out, please.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

That it can fire indirectly whenever it shoots, not just when it sustains. So it can fire indirect when it advances, doubles, and marshals or holds where it chooses to shoot.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Maybe I'm missing some basic part of the rules, but how does one deal with half the target formation being in range of the spotter and half not?

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

how about the spotter being an actual weapon that does no damage but on a successful hit conveys a +1 bonus to hit the target formation on all guided weaponry, and allows guided weaponry to be fired indirectly as part of an advance or marshal action? that way you can have different types of spotters, different range, and it doesnt require the formation firing to be part of the same spotter (though it can be, and you'll be in situations where you've advanced, and you need the spotter to hit or the doomsday cannon wont be able to, which is pretty cool i think)

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

It would require some extra book keeping, ie markers to designate what was marked. That could get tedious, especially if there's lots of spotter weapons being fired and having to track which units were "hit". Alternatively you could just do it by formation: one hit from a spotter weapon "designates" the whole formation. Keeping the to-hit value of the spotter weapons crap (6+ or 7+) will keep it from becoming automatic.

There'd also need to be some rules on how long the bonus stays in affect. Until the spotter formation's next activation would probably be the easiest.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

that is why i suggested it convey the bonus to anyone shooting the target formation, not the target unit.

i'd say the effect would last until the end of the turn, no need to allow for a "i go first activation on turn 1, spot, go last activation turn 2, and the spotting stays in effect for 2 turns" loophole
i'd also suggest that perhaps the spotting bonus would go away if the spotter died?

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~