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Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed

 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:42 pm 
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It should be possible to avoid the SW droid feel. Am I the only one who is thinkin exo armour and perhaps battlesuits or knight-sized walkers also?


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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:14 pm 
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There are obviously going to be some SW Ep1-3 feel to the list. It's impossible to avoid it. I think the tack should be to maximize some of the coolness of those ideas while still making it very post-Tyranid Squat.

I like the idea of different Overlord ships, and Overlord ships with drone skimmer escorts, and shield generators, and many of the other ideas. I do think eliminating infantry is a bad idea - after all this is an automated army, not a Necron army. The trick is to determine what we want the list to look like while still being able to make the models from GW or scratch-built parts. It is easy to dream; the real work will be the construction.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:58 pm 
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in terms of miniatures, there are a few manufacturers who do sci-fi style minis that arent necessarily game specific so those are always worth checking out...

as for infantry, maybe base it on Hearthguard stats for base infantry and then exo-armour (similar to termie stats) for the elites...small formation size with integral transport, be it ground/subterranean/air (maybe make it optional which type of transport the unit uses)...small tough infantry units backed by robot troops, vehicles & WE...keep it mobile and not so many low movement/static formations - ie sacrifice the arty for more movement capability....this would be a more organised post Nids force, perhaps a space borne colony group who land only to compete for or claim resources (eldar craftworld as others have mentioned)...

possible variation of the list is something like the post apocalyptic survivor groups, the likes of which were the basis for many a 1980s movie :) as mentioned before the Leviathan could be the core of the army with bikers/gyro support troops plus overlords and land trains (maybe change the berserker car to a living quarters car)...

plus it could be argued the survivors would try to establish strongholds on new worlds...thus u could have a cut down version of Thurgrimms list, ie limit certain higher tech units as they dont have the resources to maintain a full complement of the large high end equipment...

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Frosthammer, good ideas, but just keep in mind mixing IP is a GW IP violation. So it doesn't really matter if the pieces are just stand-alones; as long as they are non-GW, they are an IP violation. Obviously people have bitz boxes that have all sorts of things from different lines, however the trick is to minimize their usage (and their recognition). If you can get away with that, then I think you're safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:23 pm 
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yeah have to remember the IP consideration...too bad GW dont actually make the Squat stuff anymore...

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:30 pm 
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CAVEAT: IP Considerations are for pictures having to do with the Epic Supplement only. What you do on your own is all on you! Make stuff out of any game range for all I care - if you're happy, I'm happy.

I wish they did make them, but we're stuck. Borka managed to put together a cool shield generator car with Ork bits, so there is no doubt in my mind we can make new stuff up with what is available.

Keep the ideas coming though for the list. This is brainstorming time!

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:53 am 
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I'm trying to not get too drawn into this as I don't have the time, and i'm worried i'm too set on certain things already. Going into the intial list dev with strong opinions when there's lots of other people involved can be problematic.

but here goes ;)

Infantry:

still has the full gamut of unit types.
While they're short on bodies, they're also short on logistical support and have smaller forces generally. Each battle becomes proportionally that much bigger and important to the clan, and they're willing to risk people because of it:

Foragers: light scouts, private specialists in exploring and making safe old strongholds. Lightly armour, sneaky and often operating with small drone support (similar to tau). Typically carry a variety of personal weapons (from shotguns to sniper rifles), mines, tools ect. Drones may or may not be skimmers. A mule type trundler to carry equipment is just as likely. They are the pencil that marks the blow.

clangaurd: stronghold militia, all people take turns fulfilling this duty. Rarely caught in battle, and if so normally just to garrison areas and fortify the big guns. Typically accompany or are supported by trundlers outfitted with a heavy weapon - similar to the Marine Thunderfire cannon. May also operate with sniffer drones or animals bred to detect genestealer infestation. They are the base of the anvil.

Holmgard: lightly armoured, but carry palisade shields. Professional soldiers, dedicated to holding the tunnels in case of a breach. Due to the shields encumbrance, normally operate on the surface only with transport support. They are the flat of the anvil.

Hearthgard: elites. exoarmoured, deploying via tunnel, mole or land raider spartan equivalent. They are the hammer.

Embittered: those squats who lost the most in the collapse, and who were unable to turn to their new lives. Often drug addicts, suicidal or otherwise damaged beyond use, they seek death in absolution. Few commanders encourage their presence at the battle, but fewer yet would deny them oblivion once they arrive.

Golem: repurposed construction bots varying in size from dreadnaught to knight. Similar to the new decimator. Often outfitted with mixed heavy weapons, a clangard variant with large shield is also common. They are used as linebreakers and point holders. Some strongholds disagree whether a robot can be oath bound as they have no dilemma over keeping it or not. Sometimes known as Grudgeeepers, although other strongholds use that name for the heavy weapon platforms used y the clangard.

Gunships: heavy flyers, capably of dropping from orbit. a multitude of roles exist in society for these, but in combat they act as gunships and grid square removal services.
Superheavy versions are still in use by some strongholds, and modified cargo haulers have been used as transports in the past.

Tanks: various strongholds field various types of tank, generally considered inferior to the gunships. Emphasis is on durability instead of killing power. Gunships and tanks work in the same hammer and anvil pattern of the infantry.

Outriders: still exist, and still useful for scouts, flanking attacks and light convoy protection. Relatively rare now, and rarer still on the field of battle.


EDIT:
I guess there's two parts to this list. There's the 'drop from space and reclaim our rightful stuff' and the 'Stronghold on the defensive with only minimal survivors'.

For the talk of the drone army, if I was a a senior overseer, trying to hold everything together in the working half of a shattered stronghold and suddenly facing a ork warboss bent on looting, i wouldn't order the construction of dozens of fiddly, complicated infantry bots.

I'd order the construction of dozens of heavy crude tanks, each with a simple droid slave mind, the option to remote control and the hardpoints for conversion to other uses later.
The 'drop from the skys' force would presumably have time to build up forces before committing to the attack, so for them it might be less of an issue. Then again, rolling bunkers are rolling bunkers. I personally see them as a big mishmash of different unit types - rhinos with leman treads, chimeras with extended chassis, up armoured crawlers with a predator sponson on top...Call them Scratch Companies, Technical Drones, Bodge Tanks, War Tractors or whatever

"You seen the orders Balur? The Offcuts are riding the elevator down, dropping the last few meters right into the thick of it. Take and hold, take and hold."

"Huh? we're an anvil unit, not a hammer. Why are we doing the Sledgedrop?"

"Ever dropped an anvil on someone from 2km up?"

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:22 pm 
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tinkering with an idea for a nomad style list - post apocalyptic survivors...please understand this is my first attempt at working out a list...havent done stats but used the current Demiurg list as the basis for stats for units (dont want to be reinventing the wheel as such)...i look at the list as survivor groups roaming isolated worlds, still trying to hold to the old ways as much as possible with minimal interference from outsiders...lead nomad existence, mounted up in vehicles of various types - military, civilian & industrial versions so the whole clan/group/tribe can stay on the move, trading and mining resources as required...

Core Formations
- Leviathan
- Land Trains (2 - 6 cars, max 2 of any type of car)
- Warrior Brotherhood (6 stands)
- Thunderers (6 stands)
- Berserkers (6 stands)
(transport integral - discussed later)

Support Formations (3 per Core formation)
Prospectors - Bikers with Scout Ability
Foragers - Bikers (with option to upgrade to Trikes)
Robots - no scout ability, swap out autocannon for heavy bolter (HB feels more fluff appropriate)
0-1 Protectors - hearthguard (6 units)
Outriders - Iron Eagle gyrocopters
Towed Artillery - Mole Mortars, Thudd Guns, Tarantulas, Rapiers
Overlord

War Engines (25% of the army)
0-1 Cyclops
0-1 Colossus
0-1 Hellbore
0-1 Goliath Mega-cannon battery (2 mega-cannons)

Upgrades
- 0-1 Living Ancestor; 0-1 Warlord; 0-1 Magnate (renamed trade factor) - available to Leviathan, Land Train and Protectors
- warrior/thunderer/beserker formations can upgrade to add 2 stands of respective types to the formation
- no sure about further upgrades as dont want to see the formations getting larger, meant to be small bands of survivors...
- allow Protectors to replace INF stands with bike stands, with appropriate points adjustment...also allow upgrade to equip with Exo-Armour (again INF or bike versions)

Transport (the place where i think we can add some more flavour to the list)
- Iron Falcon Transport (iron eagle stats with battlecannon removed & replaced with transport ability - 4 stands)
- Termite/Spartan/Gorgon/Termite
- Overlord transport variant (replace bombs with transport capability - 8-12 stands - not sure which would be realistic)...

anyhoos, i really like maddoctor's idea about tanks - its one thing i always thought the Squat lists were missing...i mean they are gearheads after all, they would naturally be treadheads as well :)

C&C welcome...pick it apart and tell me where i have gone wrong with this :D

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Would a nomad style list use static artillery piece like Goliath?

I can see leviathan being used as transport, mobile firebase, repair & storehouse etc. And the other war engines as limited options (I think they should be rare- the only problem is 0-1 restriction does nt scale well for bigger games). Just not sure on Land Train- I think it better fits the pre-invasion strongholds.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:55 pm 
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thanks for the feedback W_I :)

if u look at the Goliath miniature, the chassis rides on tracks...so figure it can be moved but is static for deployment on the battlefield (ie cant fire on the move)...essentially slow self-propelled arty...i look at it this way, if u can tow the mole mortars, thudd guns etc then u can tow the goliath if necessary...hook it up to the Leviathan...

Land train - thinking it would suit nomadic style as u have a large engine unit that pulls carriages...u can tie in non military cars that can be decoupled and left in rear areas before the battle...IIRC the Land Trains were used to travel between strongholds, but dont see it as something too difficult to convert it to a transport platform for a nomadic group...also cheaper than a Leviathan i would think...plus with cars u can add/remove them as needed...offers more flexibility...

as for the 0-1 restriction...looking at the current lists with the WE restricted to 1/3 the points total, in a 3000 pt list u wont get many WE in the list...unless there is a suggestion to make the WE listed restricted without the 0-1 - ie limited the percentage of the army that can be allocated to WE (i did suggest 25% as figured 1/3 of the army on WE was too much for a nomadic group - dont have the large facilities to maintain large numbers of WE)

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Well I was nt too sure about Mole Mortars and Thudd Guns but that would open up a whole new can o worms!!

The 25% might work better than load of 0-1 restrictions. Certainly scales better for bigger games.

With Land Train you might be right.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Land Trains and Leviathans were both designed around mining, so making an excuse for them isn't going to be difficult. If we reeeeally want them in the list, we just have to write it as so. Same thing with Overlords which were originally designed for mining gas giants.

For general fluff, I am going to take a different approach to the Trade Consortium in that they were around BEFORE the Tyranids came. The Consortium developed on its own, in some respects in retaliation to the Stronghold organizations and their desire to hold onto old traditions. So when the Tyranids arrive, the Consortium has a peaceful but strained relationship with the Homeworlds. They end up working together (mainly for evacuation purposes). That's the story I am writing for them.

This doesn't mean that they can't have the fun toys like Goliaths, I just want to give you a peak as to where my creative juices are flowing. We may not include those pieces in the end, but much of that depends on what we put into the list. So don't get too caught up on what we should restrict - instead stay creative and come up with ideas for the units and formations. We may want Robots and Infantry working together in the same formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:43 pm 
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i assume proposed robot units would use the same Autonom rule that's in thrugrimms?

but can we please give them a better name then 'robots'?


possible suggestion for the robo-tank formation:
5x Lobo Tank - Russ chassis, two multi lasers, autonom
1x Longbow Command Tank - basically a vanquisher type thingy.

is there a name for the thunderfire cannon / thud gun chassis?
for the forager formation:
4x foragers (infantry, basic weapons, scout), 1x mule (infantry, basic weapons, scout, autonom)

for the clangard formation:
8x clangard miltia (infantry, basic weapons) UPGRADE 3x thunderfires OR 2x sheild golems(robot, low CC, heavy bolter, autonom)

for the holmgard formation:
8x holmgard brotherhood (infantry, basic weapons) UPGRADE 2x sheild golems(robot, low CC, heavy bolter, autonom), Berserkers, Transport, 2xLobo tanks

for the linebreaker golem formation:
4xrobots (either shield golems or war golems) War golem:(robot, missile launcher, powerfist, heavy bolter, autonom)

not sure about the gunships yet. while i hate the word gyrocopter, maybe that.



I'm actually halfway to just writing out a list to mined for for anything useful. so much for not getting drawn in.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Autonom rule will be the same. That rule is still in flux because AMTL Champ and I were working out how to have the special work for multiple lists. I'll post something soon.

Robot name change - well, the Robots are called Robots. The Tarantulas are called Tarantulas. Those are the old list names and I don't want to change those. HOWEVER, any new units are up for grabs in terms of names.

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 Post subject: Re: Squat Trade Consortium - Volunteer needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:53 pm 
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fair enough. I didn't realise the Squats had robots, thought they were an imperial army thing.

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