| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
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I think Thugrim's needs a lot of work before it starts being gamable.
Have you even used it?
There's an Ancestor Lord, Warlord, Lord, and Guildmaster. I'd cut out the Lord entirely. It brings it in line with the number of characters in other lists, and he doesn't fulfill a different role really to the Warlord.
First the Lord is not a character it is part of a Warrior Brotherhood as a unit (And also only available to that formations).
The Guild Master is only available to the Bikers Guild and represents part of the original background from SM/TL.
The Warlord is an upgrade to the Warrior Brotherhood only, and represents a higher status Squat commanding the Brotherhood, again as per SM/TL
The SM have four characters, the Squats have three, two if you accept the fact that the Warlord is actually an upgrade for the Lord unit.
2. Tunnellers
Why do Moles and Termites have weapon systems? They were never in the game, and aren't on the models. Drop the weapons. Why the need to change their rules from Drop Pods?
The Tunneler Rules are the same as those given in the Epic-A rule book for tunnelers, we didn't change anything Jervis wrote them.
A majority of players wanted the Tunneler Machines to remain on the table surface and have some effect on the game. Their weapons are almost entirely defensive in nature and actually slow down the formations they are part of. No one in a couple of years of using the list has found this to be a problem.
3. Ironhawks
What on Earth are they there for? Their rules are vague ("can spot"?!), they cause a lot of in-game complications and don't add anything to the feel. Why drop the Battle Cannon? Drop them entirely.
Again, as per SM/TL, the Colossus uses a Gyrocopter to spot for it. GW never explained where the fancy gear for this work was housed in the Gyro so we decided to remove the BC and put the fancy equipment there. Again in years of using the list now the rules for it spotting haven't been a problem with anyone before. It couldn't be easier, if the Iron Hawk can see the target the Colossus D'Day cannon/missiles can shoot at it.
4. No Rhinos
Where are all the Rhinos? Squats used to have Rhinos.
5. What's this Spartan nonsense?
I'm against adding new units and background. Why were Spartans introduced?
You have a very unkind way of asking a very simple question. So far you have ignored much of the background as given for the Squats in SM/TL, yet you find this offensive? We did use Rhinos, and Landraiders at first, they were both available to Squats in the SM/TL rules. The majority decided to break away from the Imperial STCs deciding the Squats would put their own touches on the equipment rather then follow the Imperial standard.
The model used for the Spartan IS the Rhino, it just has a different name and a better AP weapon system.
A later list, now not in use anymore Khazak's I think, used a version of the Landraider, and we changed its name also.
6. Thudd Guns
Why aren't these brough in line with the Siege Masters one, but with maybe a better armour stat?
Because the Siege Masters version is the Imperial standard and the Squat version is not. Again we did not want to follow exactly with the Imperium as Squats ARE different.
7. Robots
Seriously, what's going on here? Scout? If they're infantry, why are they also walkers? Make them light or armoured vehicles, drop the scout.
One, we are not going to drop scout, it is the only scouts the Squats have and as the background states, here and in SM/TL, they perform the dangerous missions no Squat leader would a Squat to go do. Can you think of anything more dangerous then a sacrificial Scout?
Two the list posted is the stripped down version used for playtesting over two years ago, not the finished product which came soon after, so some typos are all over the place in it. It was put up here so those interested parties could get started in helping with the Demiurg/Squat development thread. The finished product was much better, and the typos were fixed, but also took up a large amount of space. This one is much easier to copy.
Third, the walker was a typo from when they were LV.
9. Superheavies - far too good
These are ridiculously overpowered. How many weapons on the Colossus? And aren't they meant to have Void Shields?
I have heard this so many times from people who have only read the list, and never used it. Read the batrep given in the batrep section, the Cyclops their did hardly anything. In using them for a long time they have not been found to be overpowered. Deadly if one is not careful, but hardly overpowered.
As for too many weapons................
Colossus SM/TL stats
8xBattlecannons
Doomsday Cannon
Thunderer
6xMissiles
16xBolters
Jervis killed the Void shields on these vehicles when he decided the Leviathin was too small to have them. The Squat/Demiurg list would have no chance of anykind of approval if we added them to the Squat list.
8. Hearthguard
They're jsut copies of Terminators. Squat Hearthguard never had access to heavy weaponary in 2nd edition 40K. The models don't have it either. They acted as combat squad leaders, or bodyguards. Not Terminator equivalents. Drop the Assault Cannons.
One, the Lord Unit (Not Character), is a Hearthguard unit, the unarmored ones. (They are that way in the old SM/TL game)
Two, a majority of players wanted the Armored Hearthguard in this version to be more in line with the old 40k background, better weapons layout, we decided on Assault Cannons
Three, they cannot teleport, termies can.
Four, they don't have TRA, termies do.
Five, they are not termies.
Six, players wanted to be able to field them as a bodyguard formation, we decided to allow it.
Last, the work being down to merge Squat/Demiurg is going to result in changes. We can address those changes if people give us positive input with proposed ideas, simple ridicule and complaint is not helpful.
Jaldon 
_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC
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(Boy do I feel dumb). In more games then I can count I have seen Robots used and they are always up front in a skirmish line, or deployed scattered to prevent deep strikes. For now consider them taking up two normal slots in all Transports.
