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Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT

 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:45 pm 
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My apologies to everyone. Slowly getting back into the fray to get the Squats moving forward again. I got a game in last night that was akin to riding a bike for the first time in 20 years. Wobbly at best, but the Squats were fielded. In terms of the proposed changes, I did take the Thunderfires with the Warrior upgrade and it provided some durability that didn't seem to overpower the formation.

I'll be back on the battlefield next weekend as well. Anymore thoughts on the proposed changes?

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:31 pm 
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Good evening !

recently I spent some time fielding my eldar army...but the very next time I will be in command of the squats once more.
Due to the time that went by i would like to point out one more time the following aspects....

Backup for the thunderfires is a great idea, but i think that the price for the four guys is little bit too high. As an regular support you get them for 100 Points and you get the rhinos as well !
Somebody else mentioned it, i just can repeat the thought, that in general, the more units you take the cheaper it gets. (Overlord; baneblades and so on). According to that the costs for the third thunderfire should be dropped.

Furthermore i appreciate the transfer from the overlord and the levitian to other sections. This is great !
Unfortunaly, as long as the overlord is a "support craft " it is very vulnerable to long rage attacks (and has absolutely no chance to take cover in any way). One of my gaming budies is an imperial... bless you and brace for impact... :gah
I would like to see a change twoards "skimmer" or we, bomber. Beside the fluff thing the support craft rule is not obvious to me. Just my ten cents.

One more thing I am struggling with is the land train. In detail I am not happy with the mortar car.... . Anybody out there who uses this and who is willing to sacfrify the macro barrage for some indirect fire ?
Surprise surprise once more I vote for the thunderfire-car, with a smaller thunderfire version. Less accuracy, less range , let s say 2xAA 5+ 2xAP/At5+ and 45 range for 75 Points.
The concept of the land train gaining speed the longer it is on the way gets "like". one move speed of 15, next moves you add 5 cm (15/20/25) up to an maximung movement (march) of 60cm. (no stop till brooklyn :D )

Regards Stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:50 pm 
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nafets wrote:
I would like to see a change twoards "skimmer" or we, bomber. Beside the fluff thing the support craft rule is not obvious to me. Just my ten cents.
Regards Stefan

That would push the list back and raise the cost of the Overlords. Plus they are not fast enough to be bombers.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:36 pm 
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Hello !

Pushing back the list was not my intention at all. It is just my point of view, that as long as the transport craft rule is the way it is now i will hardly ever field overlords. Others may do, i will not.

To get a bit more constructive I share my thoughts.
What about the following;
Due to the fact that overlords operate high above the ground there could be the rule that they can be targeted by aa attacks only as long as they are up in the sky.
In opposite to skimmers that pop up for most of the time to carry out an action, there is the idea that overlords popp down in order to attack something that is on the ground.
As soon as they popp down they can be targeted by normal weaponery (At;MW) till the popp up at the end of the turn again.
Furthermore objectives cant be contested by overlords..that would be similar to aircraft.

This would represent the fact that they are circeling in the sky (not as fast as aircraft) but slow and steady ....

I would like you to continue the thinking twoards that ;)

regards and good night stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:01 pm 
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Interesting thoughts - let me mull them over.

As for the Thunderfires, I am still not convinced the drop to 100 points is a good idea. 125 seemed much closer to where the formation should be, but has anyone else got opinions on the 100 point Thunderfires?

The support for the Thunderfires do provide more than assault protection; they also help absorb blastmarkers. Stationing them around the Thunderfires means that an aircraft can't come in and suppress a gun (or break two) nearly as easily. For me, that is well worth 100 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:35 pm 
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Played another game vs. Dark Eldar which resulted in a turn 4 victory for the Squats. I won it by 75 points - slim margin to say the least.
Warrior Formation w/ Rhinos and Grand Warlord 425
Berserkers w/ Rhinos 175
Warrior Formation w/ Rhinos 300
Colossus w/ Living Ancestor 500
2 x Iron Eagles + 2 x Iron Hawks 250
Goliath Cannons (2) 300
Thunderfires w/ Extra Squad 200
Thunderfires 100
Robots 225
Overlord 250
Bikes 225
Pit Head 50

Dark Eldar list had (from memory)
Incubi and Archon in a Slavebringer
Tormentor Titan
Ravager formation
Scourges (teleporting)
Mandrakes (teleporting)
Razorwing bombers
Nightwing fighters
Vessel of Pain
Reaver formation
Reaver formation
Portal
Kashnarak

Played with the upgraded Thunderfires again and found the squad of 4 to be useful only in that they were the only units to survive the formation once the Thunderfires were destroyed. :) I do believe that 100 points is not enough for a formation of two and would like to go back to the 125 point formation, +75 for the upgrade.

Stubborn rule didn't hurt the Squats at all, and the 1+ rally rolls made the end of the turns much better than the failed activations of the beginning of the turns.

Played with the Living Ancestor and used him every turn, although he made no difference. I would declare I was using him, roll the die, then activate above and beyond what I needed. Felt like a waste, but I suppose it would have felt pretty good if I had barely made the roll. :/

Overlord didn't survive a double-tap from the Vessel of Pain's TK weapons. It poured out a tremendous amount of firepower but only managed to strip a single shadowfield. 1s and 2s abounded. Shot down, in a blaze of glory... (lyrical reference)

Robots did great! While my DE opponent was paying keen attention to his own portal, he wasn't paying any attention to mine. The robots came out with guns blazing and managed to soak up some damage without breaking - autonom rule saved their butts.

The bikes... Well, they got targeted early and never survived to do much more than annoy my opponent with a single stand that WOULD JUST NOT DIE.

Overall I was pleased with the list. I would have liked to have more upgrades, but I suppose in a tourney environment you can't always get what you want. Comments?

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:47 pm 
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I might be blind but I couldn't find the Goliath stats in the actual download packet. Figured someone could point me in that direction.

On a side note I'm sad at the lack of Thunderer or Hearthguard formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:13 pm 
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There are two formations missing from the 1.5 list. It needs to be fixed. You are most definitely not blind.

Question: do you have enough Hearthguard models to field an entire formation of them?

The Hearthguard make their mark in every Warrior and Berserker formation, and the Thunderers can be added on. I just used them the other day in fact.

I am going to make another Squat list soon and A Thunderer formation isn't out of the question.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:36 am 
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Well I have enough of the Exo-Armor Hearthguard to field a decent formation of them (I think 6 is how many stands I have). As for the thunderers I liked the idea of the more dedicated fire support. Seems very Squaty. That and it's an imperial thing and they used to be members of the imperium-ish.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:32 pm 
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Exo-armors are also in the list - I used them as Commanders (and upgrade-able Supreme Commmanders). Actual Hearthguard are as rare as hen's teeth.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:03 pm 
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It just seemed like previous incarnations of the list that the "Hearthguard" units were the exo-armor since they are armed with heavy weapons, macro cc weapons, and reinforced armor. I realize the single model with two heavy weapons in his hands is pretty rare. Would just like to see the exo-armor guys have an entry like they previously had instead of just being an HQ unit. Seems to me "Dwarves" would rely on rocks and hammers and the exo-hearth guard squads make sense in both capacities.

Not digging or anything, just discussing my thoughts. Squats honestly are pretty far down my list of armies I'm painting up since they are the least likely to drag people in from 40k :)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:47 pm 
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dear gentlemen !

Last week i had a game with one of my comrades, spaetauf (fielding Chaos).
Some questions ocurred, maybe you can help?

1) Overlord as an war engine and always poped up..does it block line of sight ?
2) Terrain tests for the land train: one roll for the train or one roll for the machine and one for each wagon ?

Some thoughts

This time i decided on using the overlord. In turn two it was engaged by a death wheel, recieved one hit and fell from the sky (critical :'( ). According to spaetaufs opinion 4+ reinforced is too strong. We discussed something like 5+ reinforced with two shields.

Thunderfire and infatrie upgrade. 100 Points, next time to be invested into another thunderfire formation in order to get more activations.
Formation was destroyed by some terminators (teleport) in cc.

Living ancestor on the cyclops; i did forget to use his special abilty during the whole game :{[]. but beeing a leader he helped a lot to get rid of blast markers.
Cyclops; my gaming pardners fear that we. (in round one i missed to activate it , >:( ) but in round two he blew of one of my oppents warengines (titan) in an overkill (6+1 hits +missles)

1+ rally, i really love this and shortened fallback was not the problem it seemd to be.

Mole mortars and thunderfires seem to work ( it was simply my fault to place the mole mortars in the first row...broken first round, destroyed round two.)

Bad dice rolling.I never got to start the round ( and my highest combat resulution roll was a single "4"


Defeat in round 3 und sad but true i had no real strategy to handle the chaos forces... maybe next time..

Regards

Stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Thanks for playing!

It is funny how your opponent killed an Overlord with a single shot then complained they are too tough. :) I'm not sure if giving it shields that can be regenerated in lieu of the better armor will make it easier to kill. In fact it may make the WE tougher. Think about it: you can take one out of the sky with ANY AT or MW shot. Some stupid Sentinel can walk up, take a pop, get lucky, and it falls from the sky (probably on the Sentinel, but...). Adding shields eliminates that possibility.

Support Craft never block line of sight, by the way. If it isn't in the rule I will make sure it gets updated.

Terrain test for the land train. Remember that the train is a single War Engine for the purposes of the game, so you will roll as many dice as it has damage capacity for the dangerous terrain test. (Ex. 1 engine + 3 cars, roll five dice).

The living ancestor is a strange one. I brought it last week and the week before. It seems just like Eldar farsight, but it isn't. You have to declare you are using it, then roll. Whether or not you needed to use it, you've rolled it and used it for the turn. The leader is the best part IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:54 am 
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Hi!

first of all I engaged the Overlord in an assault, so killing it was just a minor bonus, since I was up 2 in assault resolution before rolling dice.

Anyway, I think the Overlord is too tough because after all it is supposed to be a Zeppelin in my book. And those things aren't tough. That's like placing a small tank on the table and then stating it has DC 4. Just doesn't fit.

So, my remark was less about the balance of the thing but the feel. I think it should be way more fragile (as Zeppelins were) but to make it viable have Void Shields (makes much more sense from the designer/constructor side in my opinion - especially in something that can always be seen). So reduce armour to 5+ (NO RA) and give it 2 void shields.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.5 DRAFT
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:22 am 
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Moscovian wrote:
Thanks for playing!
Terrain test for the land train. Remember that the train is a single War Engine for the purposes of the game, so you will roll as many dice as it has damage capacity for the dangerous terrain test. (Ex. 1 engine + 3 cars, roll five dice).

Missed this before - We play that it is only 1 roll, no matter if Inf, AV or WE.


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