Tactical Command

Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1
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Author:  Deb [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.2.1

I have designed a thematic Ministorum Army list called the Ministorum Homeworld defence Conclave.

The list makes a sisters based army more viable to actually get somewhere in tournaments, without being OP. I have never seen Sister in a tournament, except a fun one I ran last year, where I told everyone to bring along the lists they would not normally use in a tournament. Sisters and a Ghazghul warhorde that should have been a cult of speed list were just some of the lists there.

People have told me that Sister are just too weak for tournaments., not fast enough, weapons are too short ranged, and units are mildly expensive. I have overcome this by adding in 2 separate support groups, and rolling in the normal support formations such as Penitent Engines, and Hereticus Warbands into the core choices.

There are no War Engines, except for the Cathedral, and the Chapels. Imperial Navy and War engines are still 1/3 of list cost. Arbites and Planetary Guard now make up the support forces. A single choice from each for each core formation. Since Onslaught have their new PPF range of Planetery Police Force minis, I could not resist putting them in the list.

No support formation is too large or over powerful. The price to reinforce the basic arbite patrols can be quite restrictive if you want to make a formation of 12 units + transports.

I have allowed for certain support units to be included to give the sisters some range, or mobility, they have previously lacked. Sentry guns with scout, and arbitor bike patrols for arbites, Artillery and Leman Russ squadrons for the planetary guard.

I think the list can work well. I just have to refine it, have people try to break it by making OP lists, and seeing if it is too OP, and whether certain formations/units need price increases, or a reduction in their skills/stats, etc.

Check it out and let me know if you like it.


Chris a mate of mine mentioned that I forgot to add the limits for Arbites and Planetary Guard that I mentioned. I have added them, and updated Saint Celestine - increasing her points and adding one ability that simulates the effect she has on sisters in the 40K universe.

1.1 version changes:

Made it that you select up to 2 formations from one of the 2 available support lists for each core choice. You may choose 2 choices from the other support choice for your next core choice. With the inbuilt limit of selecting a troop choice from the support options before taking an advance choice like artillery tanks or bikers, Black Maria and so on. This way the list still balance itself out, but you can base it around 1 support choice list, or if the game points are more, you can start mixing the 2 support choices to represent a larger available support base..

I altered the weapons and save stats on a number of formations which seemed too good for the points you pay for them, or if they are free like civilian vehicles. I also removed inspiring from the Cannoness.

1.2 version:

adds in a new light assault War engine/ Titan. The guardian angel is a jumping War engine that has stats similar to a warhound, but is better at close combat and its main ranged weapons follow the sisters theme of flame melta and bolter

Also changed the wording on some of the upgrade options as it was confusing as to what I meant particularly for Arbite reinforcements. Added hunter AA tanks as upgrades for a number of armoured formations, however this would drastically reduce the number of formations you get in a 3000 point force if you took hunters for each formation that can take them. So I would expect most commanders would not swamp the army with them.

Changes - After testing out the army, specifically using Saint Celestine, I have determined that I, and other players might over protect her formation. She is more than often, both the BTS and the Supreme commander. With the Teleport thing, I tend to drop her in on turn 2 or 3, and this means her ability to assist in faithful tests, and allow the supreme commander re-rolls is hampered. Thus I have removed her special ability, and dropped her cost. I also made her a character upgrade rather than a Unit on her own.

I also changed a few stats to represent the nature of some of the units like Seraphim, who can now get 2 more units added for 75 points.

Deathcult Assassins now get FS as they are supposed to be specialist elite close combat warriors akin to Harlequins, Daemonettes, and Wyches.

I gave Saint Celestine RA, as most Big Nasty units like Bloodthirsters, Avatars, Primarchs, etc, get RA even though they might not be WE, and only Infantry with good stats. In 40K, she is supposed to have a 4+invul save, a 2+ armour save, and possibly come back from the dead - time and time again. I have not allowed for the latter, as I think it is impossible and both a silly concept to try to introduce into Epic. Most unit that have an invul save and a 2+ save in 40K tend to get a 4+ RA save in Epic, the Invul save can represent her resilience.

I think this version is probably the best version so far, and allows for the best flexibility in list design. You have to take the basic Sisters Ministorum formations, however now you can choose if you want support from all PPF, all PDF, or a mix of the 2.

Ministorum home world defence Conclave army.docx [25.2 KiB]
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Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave Unit Stats.docx [42.69 KiB]
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Author:  Deb [ Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat

I have been looking at some of the other lists out there for Sisters/ Ministorum, and most except for Mard's have only the 2 Sisters War Engines - the Cathedral and the paired Chapels. Mard's list has Titans, however I do not want to make this list too OP or so expensive that it loses its Balanced yet competitive theme.

I am unsure whether to add in titans or knights to make it more popular because that would just make it another Frankenstein's Monster list which allows too many options.

I had tried to develop a list that is set on a Ministorum planet which is the base for a whole sisterhood convent, the local PDF (basic Imperial guard) and Planetary Police Forces (Arbites) all of whom have been activated to defend the planet against an invasion by an enemy either Xenos, Chaos, or recently fallen loyalists (in the case of Blue on Blue forces). Typically there should be no forces from the Space Marines, the Imperial Knights or AMTL on the planet, until later in the war to defend themselves, long after their distress calls have been sent out.

Am I heading in the right direction? Do people want titans, and other big nasties with long ranged MW or TK weapons?

I think it would make the list too OP, and people would complain about facing off against it.

Author:  jimmyzimms [ Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat

I like to see if we can go without titans or at least the warhound a-go-go crutch so many lists use. However I could easily see giant Ecclesiastical vehicles being in the end, not dissimilar to battle titans in all but name so YMMV. I like what you're thinking here so far.

Author:  Deb [ Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat

I could add in more War Engines to supplement the Cathedral and Chapels, however with the current Ministorum/sisters theme for their weaponry - Flame Melta and Bolter that still limits the weapons ranges.

If I do add in War Engines to the list, I will probably make them mobile walking temples. They would have to have a decent close combat weapon system, some but not a lot of shields, a moderate, but not huge amount of DC. Probably a similar Critical effect to the Orkasaurus or the Warhound. I would not make the speed faster than 25cm, because the sisters WE are supposed to be flanked by hordes of devout followers ramshackle civilian vehicles who treat it as a walking representation of the Emperor.

Perhaps something with a power flail or Power Sword on one arm, and a choice of a Titan sized Melta Cannon/ Vulcan Mega Cannon or an Inferno Cannon on the other arm. It should have a Heavy bolter array which could have both an AP and an AA stat, and possibly look about as big as a Warhound but look like an imperial knight (just larger). It should be a single unit option per formation rather than a pair, and be priced so you choose between the paired chapels or the new model.

What to call it? Templar, Collosus, Arch Angel?

It is food for thought. I would have to kit bash one, and I would rather it stood tall like a knight rather than crouched a squat like a warhound. Possibly make it look regal like most religious fanatics would envision the emperor to look like in his battle armour.

Author:  Deb [ Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat

I have decided on what the new unit will have for its stats. name Guardian Angel

Move: 25cm (Jump) Save 5+ (RA), CC 4+, FF4+ Cost: 275 points.
Special rules: Fearless, Jump - can jump over intervening terrain and friendly units, but may not jump over enemy ZOC unless engaging them. Reinforced Armour, DC3, 2 Shields, Critical effect: same crit as for a warhound, however the unit also loses its jump ability and its speed drops to 20cm, subsequent crits destroy it, and all units in 5cm are hit on a 6+.

One of its arms has either a Power Flail (EA +2 attack), or a Smiting Power Sword (EA +1 MW), the other arm has a Titan grade scout weapon chosen from - Vulcan Megabolter, an Inferno Cannon or a Melta Cannon. The light jump assault Titanic walker also has a torso mounted Heavy bolter array which gives it a 3 x range 30cm AP4+/AA5+ shots. The cost of the unit might be a little cheap, so test it a bit and see if it needs a price rise to say 300 points.

Now I have to look for a suitable miniature to represent it.

I am still not sure if there is a need for the unit though.

I have decided to call the possible new WE unit the Guardian Angel. I will be using a slightly modified 40K Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard miniature. At least for the interim.

Author:  Deb [ Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ministorum Homeworld Defence Conclave List ver 1.1 updat

I have updated the list to include the new Guardian Angel Light Assault Titan.

I am not promising the unit will stay, as I think it is not thematic to list. However I realise the list does need some heavy hitting unit to give it more staying power, and add that extra umph to take on mostly War engine lists. The new unit might also work out to be unpopular, and more a waste of points than intended.

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